First boat options, newbie seeking a little guidance.

Just a few more comments. My trailer sailer is a light weight 21fter I have had it for 38 years. (giving a different point of view to the negative comments). It has a large fractional rig main sail and smallish jib. I can rig or derig in 15 or 20 mins winch the lift keel up in 10 mins (horrible job) and launch or retrieve onto the trailer with wheels in the water but axle not. Bit of a job to winch on and if I did it more often I would purchase a 12v power winch.
Years back we achieved as a family of 2 adults and 2 kids 3 nights in the boat pulled ashore. We manged to fit 4 bicycles in (wheels removed) for the trip to Rottnest Island. Another voyage of 3 nights with 4 adults so it can be done just takes a bit of patince and organising. Must say I can't be bothered these days and just go for 2.5 hr races. I do however often take grand children on races and they are often happy in the cabin watching cartoons on phone or sit outside dragging their feet in the water. ol'will
 
Valid points to raise there though LittleSister, and you're right in what you say. I'm not planning full-family sleep overs on the boat - one thing that attracted me to where I will sail it is there is a campsite, and lots of things to do in the area. I had most of my childhood holidays in Dumfries and Galloway, and I'm planning similar trips for the kids. During the holidays we'll camp and do the usual holiday things, walks, museums, adventure parks, and we'll have the boat as an extra element that can be used as much or as little as the whole family fancy. We might all go aboard for a day trip, but for sleeping onboard that is likely to be myself and my eldest travelling up for a weekend, or on the rare occasion my wife and I get an evening to ourselves we could travel up and spend the night onboard.

I'm the one who really wants a boat, it's been a dream for years - I work offshore surrounded by the North Sea and on a nice day I would just love to be out on that water in a sailing boat just cruising with no destination in mind. I think the kids will enjoy it, whether or not they get the sailing bug I don't know, but they will be around something new and learn new things - they might end up coming on trips like Ol'Will's grandkids and entertain themselves while onboard, or we may all end up involved in the sailing - who knows. But it will be good to give them the opportunity. My wife isn't the most rugged of people, getting belted by spray and having wet feet isn't at the top of her list of fun activities, but taking the kids out for picnics and relaxing in the evening under the stars appeal to her, so I think she will be a fair-weather cruiser - though she has surprised me (and herself) before. She usually needs a nudge to do new things, but once she's tried something she usually enjoys it and gets involved. She's going to kill me for buying a boat though! :rolleyes:

You're also right that the boats singled out are quite different - I was attracted to the idea by the lines of the Folkboats, I love the way they look and would love to have the privilege of owning and maintaining one. The Etap started off as an outsider that just happened to be located quite conveniently and seemed to offer a lot of boat for the money. The more research I do the more I realise the Folkboats aren't that suitable for a young family, for a variety of reasons I hadn't even considered before I began reading up, so something along the lines of the Etap is becoming the clear choice. I'd be keen to hear other suggestions of boats that would fit the bill, though I can't see much about the Etap that puts me off - unless I am missing something?
 
The Etap is a good choice and only you know if your family will stand that drive on a regular basis. Consider putting the boat on Ullswater and joining Ullswater yacht club, at least for a couple of seasons. I'm not a member but it's a lovely spot, it's a lot closer, and there is free camping on site. They do a lot with children as well so your kids can make friends e.g. https://ullswateryachtclub.org/sailing-1/family-week-1.
The family week is open to non members so maybe give that a go.

In any case join some sort of club. It also gives you racing which you might not find attractive immediately but it doesn't have to be serious and gives you a reason to get out. And the other members will give you help and advice.
 
The Etap looks like a good choice and is an absolute bargain if it checks out. I would ignore the doomsayers.

What have you got to lose? The yacht is trailerable so you can experiment with location.

If it is not being used much, in a year or two, you can sell it at a profit. That does not happen often with boats.

On the upside, you may find a hobby that enriches your life and creates great memories for your kids.
 
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I just looked up Loch Ken and it looks great, can see exactly why you would want to go there. I've pencilled in a week for next year...
 
LittleSister said:
Is your family also keen?

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but be realistic about it. Both the boats you mention would be considered by most these days to be too small for a family. They're not, of course: a few decades ago they would have been normal, even generously sized and kitted out, but expectations have changed enormously. Only if your family thinks camping and such-like is fun are they likely to find these boats acceptable.

Do not be deceived by the number of berths. Most builders put too many in - you wouldn't want to be on the boat when everyone stands up. Where are you going to put everyone's clothes, etc. etc.? Is there actually room for all in the cockpit when the tiller and winches are in use?

You have homed in on two boats that are quite different to one another, which suggests to me that perhaps you are not clear about your criteria. (Note that some (all?) Folksongs have the mainsheet track across the bridge deck - not very safe/convenient for kids going in and out of the cabin, in my view.) I'd suggest you go to look at few other boats before making up your mind, though that's not advice I've always followed myself! :o

Good luck with your search, and happy sailing.

p.s. A six hour round trip to Loch Ken doesn't sound very family friendly. I suspect you'll be sailing alone.
Click to expand...

This was my immediate reaction.

The family and especially the Missus should be just as keen as you. Last summer I sailed 5 up in a 31 footer and tempers were being frayed after a couple of days. A folkboat or anything smaller I would say might be suitable for week-ending 2 up. The boats you are considering might be OK as day-sailors with weather protection if it rains. As to sleeping on it I shudder to think.

But then at my age, comfort counts. Uffa Fox used to recommend that a boat should be one foot for every year of the owner.
 
You mentioned that you wanted "something to learn in"; may I suggest a saoling school?
Seriously, if you intend to take your family out on the water I would advise you (and your wife) to take at least one or two sailing courses. You will get some insight into the basic pitfalls to be avoided and learn a little about navigation and meteorology. You will also benefit greatly if your wife goes, as having someone else on board with a similar level of knowledge, skills etc will increase both the enjoyment and the safety of all.
 
Yep, courses are on the cards, I'm certainly not taking a boat out on a lake or loch with other people's boats on without any instruction - it's an accident waiting to happen!

Just to reiterate, the whole family won't be sleeping on the boat - just day use with occasional one-night sleeps for me and one other, either one of the kids or me and Mrs Wife. When the whole family are up we'll be camping.

I'm starting to lean more towards Ullswater... Loch Ken looks beautiful, and is a lot cheaper, but Ullswater is an hour closer (and the saving on fuel will go some way to offsetting the higher costs) and looks to have excellent facilities - I'd be joining the Yacht Club if I went for Ullswater, which seems sensible for a beginner. Will make some enquiries today and see how they are fixed for moorings.
 
I looked at Ullswater last year and did the family week for research. You're looking at 1k per year for family membership and mooring. However there may be a waiting list for a club mooring in which case you have to get a private mooring first from dalemain estate. I ended up going for Carsington which is cheaper and nearer (for me).
 
With regard to sailing courses, as you are looking at day sailing and trail-able yachts may I suggest a Keelboat course. I completed the level 1 course earlier this year and found the sailing on small yachts (Hunter Medina's) was ideal as I was using a seafarer 18ft. The course allows you to steer and handle sails, all the roles you will need for the family and enough confidence to allow them to hold a course whilst you adjust sails or any other changes necessary. It also gives you a better feel for small boating than attending a competent crew/day skipper course onboard a >30ft yacht.
Looking forward to the next course and sourcing my next boat as the seafarer has gone to pastures new as a parts boat for someone else.
If you can, talk to others at the area you want to sail and see if can get a trip on a similar sized boat, as all handle differently and will let you know what works for you.

Good luck
 
Keelboat course - I hadn't heard of that one, I'll look into it, thanks!

I think Ullswater is going to be the winner here. Saving an hour's drive each way will make it more doable as a family trip - pick the kids up from school on Friday, head up the road and arrive in time to pitch the tent, have some food and put the nippers to bed*. You can also camp at the Yacht Club if you're a member so that's neat and convenient.

*Sit outside the tent listening to them giggling and whispering thinking we can't hear them.
 
Just by way of an update, I am now the proud owner of an Etap 22, which will be going onto Ullswater in the near future. Thanks for all the advice, it is very much appreciated. I have a whole lot of reading and learning ahead of me, and I'm really looking forward to getting stuck in, and chatting to you guys more in the future. ?
 
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