First boat - Halcyon 27

[Tosser]

Hello, I just bought an old Halcyon 27 of approx.1970 vintage. At 63 years old I have never been on board a sailing boat before, let alone operated one, so there is everything to learn. I am a very keen DIYer so am looking forward to the coming challenges regarding maintenance, repairs and upgrades.
The boat will be delivered to my driveway next week, but in the meantime the first query that has arisen is: The cockpit sole is just an old, loose piece of dirty 3/4" ply-board that can be lifted out and the engine viewed from above. The engine is currently separated from its head, so I expect to need the access this floor affords. The temporary floor has obviously been there a good while as it is delaminating and very much a shadow of its former self. It is not too attractive being mucky, swollen in places and certainly not how Alan Buchanan would have envisaged the cockpit sole. I feel this is an important first job as winter rains will soon be washing past the exposed engine, so I would like to know what is likely to have been in this place originally so that I can reconstruct it and protect the lovely old Sabb. My idea is that a removable sole or forward part of sole at least should be made of marine ply and plenty of fibre glass and epoxy.
In the meantime I will tarpaulin the boat. I can see no evidence of waterlogging so reckon the area has been protected since the original cockpit sole scarpered.
Thank you for any help you are able to offer.

 

[Bajansailor]

Hello T - a belated welcome to the Forum. I just saw your previous post from last year where you were looking for a Wing 25.
But a Halcyon 27 is also a good choice of vessel!

There are photos of two different cockpits on the Yachtsnet page for the Halcyon 27 -
Archive details of Halcyon 27 - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers
One has a grating (I presume with plywood underneath) and the other has a teak overlay on the plywood.

Is there a flange / upstand on the cockpit floor to help stop water from going down below?

@halcyon of this parish has one, and he would probably be the best person to advise you.
https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?members/halcyon.1082/

 

[Wansworth]

My father had one ,new in 1970. Make a mound and make a grp cockpit sole

 

[Tosser]

Hello T - a belated welcome to the Forum. I just saw your previous post from last year where you were looking for a Wing 25.
But a Halcyon 27 is also a good choice of vessel!

There are photos of two different cockpits on the Yachtsnet page for the Halcyon 27 -
Archive details of Halcyon 27 - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers
One has a grating (I presume with plywood underneath) and the other has a teak overlay on the plywood.

Is there a flange / upstand on the cockpit floor to help stop water from going down below?

@halcyon of this parish has one, and he would probably be the best person to advise you.
https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?members/halcyon.1082/

Hi Bajan and thank you so much for your kind and quick reply.
Yes, I was looking for that 'folkboat' outline and so there were about 7 in my shortlist. Comparing the Halcyon to others I think it worked out for the best as the headroom is better in the Halcyon. There's something bewitching about that combination of the folkboat hull and the stepped superstructure that seem to outweigh any consideration of practicality - newer boats are wider and have more breadth below. But I also wanted a relatively easy footway to the mast and on forward, which the Halcyon pulls off so well.
With regard to the cockpit flooring, I will have to scoot over to where she's ashore and take a closer look. As I recall it is just a horizontal 2cm lip all round the edge and the piece of plywood cut to size and dropped into place, but not secured with anything but gravity. I was quite surprised as it means the bilge pump would be dealing with a lot of water if the sea kept breaching the coamings. I thought I must have misunderstood how a cockpit floor works, because surely they aren't open to the elements all the time, with just a loose-fitting floor dropped into place?
If necessary, and if practical, I'll seal a new floor into place, put a couple of drains outlets in and then out through the hull and then pick up a bit of that hardwood grating you often see in shower cubicles so that feet stay relatively dry, like the drainage rack at home on the sink's draining board.
But I have a suspicion the removable floor was to do with the engine access, so will look a bit closer tomorrow.
I'm so grateful to you for the links and suggestion, and will be sure to picture before and after in case it helps anyone else, or if others have better ideas, which is far more likely!

 

[Tosser]

My father had one ,new in 1970. Make a mound and make a grp cockpit sole

It must have been an expensive boat when your father bought his new in 1970 Wansworth. Mine is a 1970 one, so as only 200 were made over the 6 to 7 years, it's not too far-fetched to imagine this is the same one.
Thank you for your suggestion about fabricating a waterproof floor that slots into place. That's what I'm thinking, a removable floor like the soles inside her, with a rubber seal all round, screws to hold the sole in place, and two drains built in to take away the gallons of cold sea water and shoot them out the sides.

 

[DoubleEnder]

A sealed floor is good, and cockpit drains very useful. But try not to have too many gallons of cold seawater in there with you.

Seriously, there are a number of ways of achieving the seal, but from experience I’d say being able to get good access to the engine is also very valuable so try to make your sealed floor reasonably easy to lift when necessary.

 

[Wansworth]

It must have been an expensive boat when your father bought his new in 1970 Wansworth. Mine is a 1970 one, so as only 200 were made over the 6 to 7 years, it's not too far-fetched to imagine this is the same one.
Thank you for your suggestion about fabricating a waterproof floor that slots into place. That's what I'm thinking, a removable floor like the soles inside her, with a rubber seal all round, screws to hold the sole in place, and two drains built in to take away the gallons of cold sea water and shoot them out the sides.

It cost 2,700 pounds complete,extra cost for launching……was a very good deal at the time

 

[Bajansailor]

It cost 2,700 pounds complete,extra cost for launching……was a very good deal at the time

That is not a lot in today's money - but in 1970 your Dad's boat would have cost approx GBP 43,000 in today's money, according to this calculator -
Inflation calculator

And that is probably less than the new cost of a similar size AWB today?

 

[Bajansailor]

@Tosser is the present height of the cockpit floor above the waterline?

It sounds like you do not currently have any drains going overboard as such (?)
If the present floor level is below or near the waterline, it might be feasible to raise the floor a bit, to ensure that it will be self draining (?)
You mention a 2 cm lip (or flange) around the edge of the aperture which the floor sits on - it probably would not be too difficult to raise this a bit?
The disadvantage would be a shallower cockpit, and hence less headroom under the boom, but it might be worth it?
Hopefully Brian (@halcyon ) will be along soon to give you some good advice based on experience with his boat.

 

[Wansworth]

Parents bought detached house in Sussex in 1964 for 6,500 the boat cost 2,700 six years later but it seemed quite cheap and good value

 

[AntarcticPilot]

@Tosser is the present height of the cockpit floor above the waterline?

It sounds like you do not currently have any drains going overboard as such (?)
If the present floor level is below or near the waterline, it might be feasible to raise the floor a bit, to ensure that it will be self draining (?)
You mention a 2 cm lip (or flange) around the edge of the aperture which the floor sits on - it probably would not be too difficult to raise this a bit?
The disadvantage would be a shallower cockpit, and hence less headroom under the boom, but it might be worth it?
Hopefully Brian (@halcyon ) will be along soon to give you some good advice based on experience with his boat.

My father bought a Halcyon 27 in the late 60s. The Halcyon originally had a self-draining cockpit; there was a shallow sump at the after end, with a drain set in it. As far as I recall, the cockpit sole was part of the topsides moulding, but had a grating on top of it. The cockpit sole was very close to the waterline, so you could get flooding up the cockpit drain. It sounds like this Halcyon has been modified, perhaps to provide better access to the engine space. This would not have been necessary for the original Sabb 8hp engine, but if a larger engine was installed later, access via the cockpit sole might have been necessary.

Whatever, originally it would have had a proper self-draining cockpit; what is there now is certainly not original.

 

[scottie]

A sealed floor is good, and cockpit drains very useful. But try not to have too many gallons of cold seawater in there with you.

Seriously, there are a number of ways of achieving the seal, but from experience I’d say being able to get good access to the engine is also very valuable so try to make your sealed floor reasonably easy to lift when necessary.

And crossed drains hoses stop the cockpit getting wet every tack

 

[halcyon]

@Tosser is the present height of the cockpit floor above the waterline?

It sounds like you do not currently have any drains going overboard as such (?)
If the present floor level is below or near the waterline, it might be feasible to raise the floor a bit, to ensure that it will be self draining (?)
You mention a 2 cm lip (or flange) around the edge of the aperture which the floor sits on - it probably would not be too difficult to raise this a bit?
The disadvantage would be a shallower cockpit, and hence less headroom under the boom, but it might be worth it?
Hopefully Brian (@halcyon ) will be along soon to give you some good advice based on experience with his boat.

Hi, wekcome to the Halcyon owners, the OP that is.

Mine has a 50 mm flange moulded in the base of the cockpit, on this was srewd down a ply floor, this had a hole for the prop forward / reverse lever forward port corner. There is a small sump across the back that has a cockpit drain out of the transum, together with 2 x 100 mm dia drain pipes throught the lazerette as well.

Brian

 

[Tosser]

A sealed floor is good, and cockpit drains very useful. But try not to have too many gallons of cold seawater in there with you.

Seriously, there are a number of ways of achieving the seal, but from experience I’d say being able to get good access to the engine is also very valuable so try to make your sealed floor reasonably easy to lift when necessary.

Everybody loves a foot bath after a hard day's work. We're all suckers for home comforts. ; )

 

[Tosser]

Hi, wekcome to the Halcyon owners, the OP that is.

Mine has a 50 mm flange moulded in the base of the cockpit, on this was srewd down a ply floor, this had a hole for the prop forward / reverse lever forward port corner. There is a small sump across the back that has a cockpit drain out of the transum, together with 2 x 100 mm dia drain pipes throught the lazerette as well.

Brian

Oh great, thank you. I just got up to see there is water coming from the sky for some reason so I'd better scoot straight over to the boatyard and check it is working. It looked a bit ham-fisted at first sight but I didn't take too much notice of it. Now I will!!

 

[Tosser]

Hi, wekcome to the Halcyon owners, the OP that is.

Mine has a 50 mm flange moulded in the base of the cockpit, on this was srewd down a ply floor, this had a hole for the prop forward / reverse lever forward port corner. There is a small sump across the back that has a cockpit drain out of the transum, together with 2 x 100 mm dia drain pipes throught the lazerette as well.

Brian

Am on my way down to boat this morning to investigate this Brian. It looks like some initial work to do to check drains and the floor for watertightness. The 2 x 100mm holes sound like a good size to drain the cockpit quickly - I've seen smaller drain holes on flat roofs, so hopefully that does the trick perfectly. Will leave a message here later after visiting the boat, and will take any pictures that may be helpful. In the meantime I'm really grateful to everyone for the tremendous response here.

 

[Scillypete]

I had one for a few seasons nearly twenty years ago now. It was a later model sailed beautifully and was capable of going anywhere. There is an association, or was back then, and the website is still up you may get some good help there.
Offshore Yachts Class Owners Association (OYCOA) Homepage

the sole was a complete moulding and extra access to the engine was through the port cockpit locker.

 

[Tosser]

Just been down to have a look at her in the boatyard and despite it raining a fair bit last night here in southern Hampshire there was virtually none in her bilges. Usual delightful combination of a small amount of diesel oil and dirty water, but nothing excessive.
I saw that the loose fitting piece of plywood floor must have carted nearly all the rain water down to the little gully at the aft end, where a single decent sized outlet then carries the water away out of the transom.
I will make a new floor piece from marine ply and fibreglass, and put a rubber seal around the periphery, with six screws to hold in in position.
I want to say that I'm really grateful to you other commenters who have volunteered expertise and information. To a person who is worried about their new 'girlfriend' it is an amazing help. I hope I can return the favour in due course, and will be delighted to help if I can.

 

[Tosser]

I had one for a few seasons nearly twenty years ago now. It was a later model sailed beautifully and was capable of going anywhere. There is an association, or was back then, and the website is still up you may get some good help there.
Offshore Yachts Class Owners Association (OYCOA) HomepageView attachment 123177

the sole was a complete moulding and extra access to the engine was through the port cockpit locker.View attachment 123178

Wow! Look at her dipping her toe in the water - that's an amazing photo ScillyPete! Whereabouts was that? It looks like an ideal place to get a quick spot of ant-fouling done. Also the picture of the cockpit is exactly as I hope to have things when I've spent a bit of time slowly bringing her back to life. I just can't get over how beautiful these boats are, and the sleek, streamlined hull seems to be popular, if not a major racing attribute, it seems to allow for a really low capsize screening formula, if that is of any relevance. This girl's is 1.63, which seems very low indeed.

 

[Tosser]

Thank you so much for uploading those great photos Pete, and also for the link to the Offshore Yachts Class Owners Assoc. It really is very kind of you.