Fingerprints and the new EU Entry Exit system

[lustyd]

And a chip with some of your biometric data which is difficult to forge.
Also in many countries, the chip data is cross correlated with your finger prints and the photo they took last time you entered the country.

It is almost impossible to forge a passport these days.

Much easier to forge the application and get a real one. Particularly in the UK where very few checks are made on passport applications.

Indeed, when the document is trusted so implicitely, and the biometric data is "infallable" it's easier and more convenient to have a real one with fake info. Not even that hard to do, and given the value of an unquestionable document this is very much worth the effort for those who have a need to be hidden (aka criminals). As I said earlier, for those paying £25k to sit in the back of a lorry to get in, that money is better spent on a real passport with fake fingerprints. The prints are on the passport, and it's an easy afternoon to turn them into a useable faux fingerprint.

 

[Poignard]

A question I ought to have asked myself is:

"Why am I wasting my time reacting to the half-baked conspiracy theories of a crackpot Q-anon backwoodsman?"

 

[lustyd]

A question I ought to have asked myself is:

"Why am I wasting my time reacting to the half-baked conspiracy theories of a crackpot Q-anon backwoodsman?"

It's a shame you have never asked yourself what the advantage is of a huge database of fingerprints as we've tried to explain, the downsides outweigh the slight convenience of faster checkin. It's easy enough to derail a perfectly reasonable discussion by acting like a child, but others here like to understand the topics at hand. You didn't even respond to the points I mentioned such as how you'd rectify the situation when the computer is quite certain you're not in the country, preventing a checkout or vice versa. Or how you'd go about fixing an issue where you are deemed an illegal immigrant because your previous checkout failed unbeknownst to you yet here you are inside the country because you arrived by yacht. That makes you an illegal immigrant and you will need to prove you are not from within your cell.

 

[Graham376]

I mentioned such as how you'd rectify the situation when the computer is quite certain you're not in the country, preventing a checkout or vice versa. Or how you'd go about fixing an issue where you are deemed an illegal immigrant because your previous checkout failed unbeknownst to you yet here you are inside the country because you arrived by yacht. That makes you an illegal immigrant and you will need to prove you are not from within your cell.

Exactly the same position as now so, what's the problem?

 

[Mister E]

All these doubts say a lot about how some people think.
But the basic solution is easy, if you don't want the EU to store your details don't go.
Find somewhere else that does not store the information you are unhappy with and in such a way you like.

 

[Ningaloo]

Just spent some time in Singapore, a highly "regulated" society. Fingerprints on the way in/out and passport required to get a local SIM card. Mask wearing mandatory everywhere.

The flip side to this control is healthcare and housing is available to all and you pay according to your ability. Oh - and the streets are spotless thanks to the no chewing gum law.

Putting a car on the road requires a 10 year government permit that is approximately the same as the car's value. But public transport is cheap and convenient.

Not sure how well this scales to a larger and geographically diverse country, but it certainly seems to work for the majority in Singapore.

 

[TiggerToo]

British passports do not include fingerprints.

The post is not about Brexit. It is simply about allowing people to be properly informed about the requirements placed on them before they travel.

everything to do with travel beyond our shores is about Brexit. As is any commerce. Even across the Irish Sea.

Suck it up, sweetie. And, yes, it is a pile of poo.

 

[dunedin]

A question I ought to have asked myself is:

"Why am I wasting my time reacting to the half-baked conspiracy theories of a crackpot Q-anon backwoodsman?"

And what the heck has 90% of this thread got to do with sailing and/or Scuttlebut remit. Mostly seems to be a platform for 2-3 posters to peddle their anti-fingerprints (and anti-EU?) views.
From a boating perspective the position is clear, and was by the first few posts - if we want to leave the UK to enter any country we need to be aware what the rules are and comply. Or stay at home if not happy with the host country’s rules. End of.

 

[TiggerToo]

. Or stay at home if not happy with the host country’s rules. End of.

there is an alternative.
Campaign to rejoin a family of nations who decided that internal borders are "oh, so last century".

Admittedly it will be a long and hard campaign.

 

[Lodestone]

everything to do with travel beyond our shores is about Brexit. As is any commerce. Even across the Irish Sea.

Suck it up, sweetie. And, yes, it is a pile of poo.

It is fascinating how intolerant and abusive some people get simply because a post was made informing people of changes to immigration procedures.
It is also even more fascinating how intolerant and abusive some people get simply because they disagree with someone else's point of view.
The hostile immaturity displayed here is a sad example to set to other forum members.
It is also noticeable that some are still very sore about past events and choose to take it out on other people. If there's any sucking up to be done perhaps it's for them to do.

 

[Lodestone]

All these doubts say a lot about how some people think.
But the basic solution is easy, if you don't want the EU to store your details don't go.
Find somewhere else that does not store the information you are unhappy with and in such a way you like.

What is wrong with someone having doubts?

 

[Lodestone]

And what the heck has 90% of this thread got to do with sailing and/or Scuttlebut remit. Mostly seems to be a platform for 2-3 posters to peddle their anti-fingerprints (and anti-EU?) views.
From a boating perspective the position is clear, and was by the first few posts - if we want to leave the UK to enter any country we need to be aware what the rules are and comply. Or stay at home if not happy with the host country’s rules. End of.

It mostly seems to be a platform for 2-3 intolerant types to lash out which is a shame and just wastes everyone else's time.
The only reference to the forbidden B word seems to come from the angries who have to keep dragging it in making 90% of the 'noise'.
The EES is a system that many sailors are likely to encounter - and thus has relevance (e.g. any delay, documentation, changes to ports of entry, sources of information and updates on advice etc.).

 

[lustyd]

Exactly the same position as now so, what's the problem?

Not at all, in the past it was a conversation with a person, going forwards it's an argument with an "infallable computer". Totally different scenario and there are already many examples.

Mostly seems to be a platform for 2-3 posters to peddle their anti-fingerprints (and anti-EU?) views.

I feel like some of us have been informing the less well informed of the issues. You're free to post robust information to the contrary if you wish, or just stick to implying we're crackpots. Robust responses preferred, tabloid style digs are realistically more harmful to you.

 

[Poignard]

there is an alternative.
Campaign to rejoin a family of nations who decided that internal borders are "oh, so last century".

Admittedly it will be a long and hard campaign.

This thread illustrates yet again the unbridgeable gulf that divides the UK.

B----- is not the cause of this gulf, it has existed for decades; perhaps for centuries. B----- has simply brought it to the forefront.

The gulf is between those who think with their hearts and those who think with their heads; those governed by emotion and those governed by reason.

Which will prevail? Hard to say.

At the moment, the reason camp isn't doing very well and seems to be in retreat. I hope I live long enough to see a change.

 

[TiggerToo]

I feel like some of us have been informing the less well informed of the issues. You're free to post robust information to the contrary if you wish, or just stick to implying we're crackpots. Robust responses preferred, tabloid style digs are realistically more harmful to you.

I completely agree.

Information on reality is very useful and important.

It is very useful and important to know exactly what we have chosen to do, when we re-erected barriers to free travel across our borders.

And in my opinion, these amount to a pileofpoo.

 

[lustyd]

At the moment, the reason camp isn't doing very well and seems to be in retreat. I hope I live long enough to see a change.

You're probably not in the camp you think you're in, given your kneejerk reaction to reason on this thread

 

[Poignard]

You're probably not in the camp you think you're in, given your kneejerk reaction to reason on this thread

What I have seen here are narrow-minded Luddites; fearful of the modern world and technology; showing an unwillingness to adapt and to see the bigger picture.

These are the ones whom we are now expecting to go out and strive for global Britain in the 21st century.

Don't make me laugh.

 

[Poignard]

Perhaps one or two special immigration desks can be retained for the few remaining Luddites, those fearful of being finger-printed.

Where they can wait for hours in slow-moving malodorous queues, shuffling forward to present their dog-eared bits of paper to bored and impatient officials; whilst the enlightened majority pass speedily through to get to their holiday destinations, homes, or wherever they are going.

 

[lustyd]

What I have seen here are narrow-minded Luddites; fearful of the modern world and technology; showing an unwillingness to adapt and to see the bigger picture.

These are the ones whom we are now expecting to go out and strive for global Britain in the 21st century.

Don't make me laugh.

What you've seen here are experts explaining the issues and people like yourself refusing to accept those issues out of pure emotion without even trying to understand the reason behind it.

Perhaps one or two special immigration desks can be retained for the few remaining Luddites, those fearful of being finger-printed.

Where they can wait for hours in slow-moving malodorous queues, shuffling forward to present their dog-eared bits of paper to bored and impatient officials; whilst the enlightened majority pass speedily through to get to their holiday destinations, homes, or wherever they are going.

Again though, you're ignoring all of the perfectly reasonable posts. and childishly name calling without even trying to understand the topic beyond the most utterly basic interpretation of it.

I had a conversation once about the bottled water being handed out at Tube stations, and how many people would accept a bottle of water from a stranger and immediately start drinking simply because it was convenient. This amidst a backdrop of terror alerts and a terror attack the previous day. Sometimes it pays to question things.

Lucky for you there are people like us watching out for you so that hopefully you'll never need to find out what we were worried about.

 

[Poignard]

[...]

I had a conversation once about the bottled water being handed out at Tube stations, and how many people would accept a bottle of water from a stranger and immediately start drinking simply because it was convenient. This amidst a backdrop of terror alerts and a terror attack the previous day. Sometimes it pays to question things.

[...]

'
Thank you, you have perfectly encapsulated the difference between the way your mind works and the way mine works.

I would take the water with no other thought than that I was glad to receive it: a positive thought.

You, on the other hand, would view it as something that might hurt you: a negative thought.

Need any more be said?