Fairline 43 Owners

[volvopaul]

J, my understanding of Assassin post was that he just wanted to point out that rejection can't materialize just upon buyer's decision, but requires some steps instead.
Therefore, he couldn't fall in the trap that you highlighted even if wanted to, after reading a wrong suggestion from myself, VP or anyone else on a forum.
Which stands to reason - hence my last para in post #22.

The old marine industry is a law on its own in my opinion.

You buy a new car or house , some of which can equate to the same kind of outlay , high end cars, low end boats etc.
Your cars faulty , so you take it to the dealer , hand them the keys , pick up your loan car and wait for the call to say it’s sorted.
You buy a new house , 10 year NHBC cover , unless the builder goes bust.

You buy a boat , it’s a different story now I’d guess because a boat is built from many components from hundreds of manufacturers it can be a slightly longer process.
Now my view on this is that we are talking production boats not bespoke boats where very little has gone into the build and design , surely this OP problem should be dealt with in reasonable time in a reasonable manner .

I see the OP has not replied, let’s see.

 

[jrudge]

The old marine industry is a law on its own in my opinion.

You buy a new car or house , some of which can equate to the same kind of outlay , high end cars, low end boats etc.
Your cars faulty , so you take it to the dealer , hand them the keys , pick up your loan car and wait for the call to say it’s sorted.
You buy a new house , 10 year NHBC cover , unless the builder goes bust.

You buy a boat , it’s a different story now I’d guess because a boat is built from many components from hundreds of manufacturers it can be a slightly longer process.
Now my view on this is that we are talking production boats not bespoke boats where very little has gone into the build and design , surely this OP problem should be dealt with in reasonable time in a reasonable manner .

I see the OP has not replied, let’s see.

I agree absolutely.

It also goes further. If you get your car serviced there is a service schedule and it all gets done at once ( well maybe I am being optimistic).

With a boat you say service it please.

Does this include the generator? No you didn't ask me to do it.

AC filters. No I am a mechanic. Call an AC company.

carbon water filter change? Errrr what ?

Whilst there will be exceptions the owner tends to be the integrator who tried to get all this done.

I do huge amounts myself ( I tell myself between swearing I enjoy it). There are lots of small things that go together to make a decent season. All the small repairs - hinges, cupboard latches, lightbulbs etc , AC filters, winch cleaning ( bits of chain trick the chain counter), shower boxes, water filters, oiling teak tables etc etc etc the list goes on.

Whilst it may happen I have never seen a marine company give me a 3 page tick list that says here is everything we can think of that might need doing to a motor boat, tick what you want us to do!

 

[petem]

Boat owners like to sell a dream and in some ways that's what buyers of new boats should receive.

But we all now, that boating is like the wild west. There's no mandatory licensing, mandatory training, mandatory insurance, no speed limits, no drink driving restrictions. And there's no MOT, no formal recall process that manufacturers have to follow or declaration when a boat is written off.

Boat ownership isn't just about boating. You need to be prepared to get your hands dirty or at least have the nouse to employ people that you can trust to keep the thing going.

I say to my colleagues and friends that owning a boat is like owing a classic sporstcar that has two engines plus domestic electrical and heating systems with the added complication of the sea and elements that are constantly trying to destroy the thing.

 

[MapisM]

I say to my colleagues and friends that owning a boat is like owing a classic sporstcar that has two engines plus domestic electrical and heating systems with the added complication of the sea and elements that are constantly trying to destroy the thing.

My usual comparison is just about the other way round.
A good friend of ours is the owner of the lovely house below, which is as close to a boat as a house can get.
In fact, the upper/left side of the pic points NW, hence it's exposed to Mistral, with a fetch of 300Nm or so, right up to the Gulf de Lyon.
During winter storms, she literally has sea water above the roof.
When she complains that the maintenance of her house is akin to a boat, I tell her that in order to make the comparison meaningful, she should think of lifting the thing, fitting engines inside it, and drop it directly in the sea - all year round.

 

[jfm]

J, my understanding of Assassin post was that he just wanted to point out that rejection can't materialize just upon buyer's decision, but requires some steps instead.
Therefore, he couldn't fall in the trap that you highlighted even if wanted to, after reading a wrong suggestion from myself, VP or anyone else on a forum.
Which stands to reason - hence my last para in post #22.

Mapism, I don't want to write pages of legal detail that bores people and I'll therefore shut up as soon as asked, but in brief the above is completely wrong. Rejection is a unilateral process. To use your words, it materializes just on the buyer's decision. It requires only something simple like an email from buyer saying in effect that he/she rejects the boat or words to that effect.

Let me give a simple but plausible example of how OP could fall in the trap that I'm warning him and anyone else to be ver careful of, contrary to your advice:

Imagine the boat dealership is a tiny company. Has 4 stock boats financed ~100% by mortgage loans, a rented office at the marina, and has made small losses for 5 years, and it owes £400k as a loan to its shareholder and CEO, who put £200k of money in out of his savings as start up capital and has not drawn £200k of his salary due to poor performance of the business. The boat dealership isn't great, and the dealer guy would be better shutting the business and taking a regular job as an employee somewhere else. However, he will lose his £400k if he does that.

Now OP comes along and rejects his £600k boat. Boss guy could argue the rejection is invalid, but why would be? Boss guy logically decides to throw in the towel and put company into liquidation. The 4 stock boats are repossessed by finance co, so the company owns just OP's boat, and has money debts owing of £600k to OP and £400k to dealer boss guy. Let's say the stock boat is auction sold at £400k. Liquidator will give £240k to OP and £160k to dealer principal/boss guy. OP not happy, and now realises he was dumb to have rejected his boat

All I've ever said in this thread is be very careful to understand the consequences before rejecting a high value item bought from a low value seller (which kinda defines a lot of the boat dealership world). I've said enough I hope, so I'll stand back and let you and Assassin argue the opposite if you wish - I don't mind.

 

[MapisM]

I've said enough I hope, so I'll stand back and let you and Assassin argue the opposite if you wish - I don't mind.

Thanks J, got it loud and clear, but I wasn't arguing the opposite, fwiw.
I already backpedalled my initial comment right after you explained how rejection works in UK law, and my last post was just out of curiosity, since I saw the buyer-triggered rejection regardless of whether the seller has anything to say about that or not a bit strange.
Anyhow, if that's how it works, that's how it works.
Good to know also for others who were unaware of it, I suppose.

As an aside, I'm now hoping that henryf is not reading this thread, because I'm thinking that the next time I'll come to the UK, instead of renting a boring car, I could as well buy a GT3 from him, and then reject it right before flying back home.
Since for all I know he's a reliable guy, I shouldn't be too concerned about my credit towards him...

 

[jfm]

As an aside, I'm now hoping that henryf is not reading this thread, because I'm thinking that the next time I'll come to the UK, instead of renting a boring car, I could as well buy a GT3 from him, and then reject it right before flying back home.
Since for all I know he's a reliable guy, I shouldn't be too concerned about my credit towards him...

A particularly good idea, because Henri's business is 5 minutes from LHR
Unfortunately, there are special rules in the "rejection law" when you reject a car. Henryf might do better out of the deal than you're expecting. You might be better sticking with Hertz

 

[MapisM]

There goes my hope to have found a glitch in the matrix.
Oh, well. After all I might get a GT3 anyway, if he has a good one.
Possibly a LHD one, which he's desperate to give away for a song...

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Having come on here with a damning complaint about a very expensive boat and then disappearing I would suggest the OP is probably so sad and lonely that he enjoys trolling people on forums ... or maybe he works for Princess or Sunseeker!

 

[Portofino]

There goes my hope to have found a glitch in the matrix.
Oh, well. After all I might get a GT3 anyway, if he has a good one.
Possibly a LHD one, which he's desperate to give away for a song...

I,d be looking closer to home for a sporty car if I was you .
Try wondering about in Modena if that fails Sant Agata .
You make decent sports cars as well as boats :encouragement:

Don’t give Mrs Merkel more excuses to lend more €€€ , s to your Gov

 

[Portofino]

Back on topic ......
I was thinking how do disgruntled customers end up bypassing the dealer and get legal with the manufacture in the boat world . That’s a bigger fish to fry compared to JFM ,s dealer example .
Thinking Pearl and Oyster ended up loosing in court .
I think Sealine fessed up and funded retro repairs .
Anyhow in all three cases have a common denominator of the dealer dropped out of the loop in the final show downs .Realise would have been involved early on but somehow the buck got passed up the line .

 

[Portofino]

Having come on here with a damning complaint about a very expensive boat and then disappearing I would suggest the OP is probably so sad and lonely that he enjoys trolling people on forums ... or maybe he works for Princess or Sunseeker!

If he’s going to go “ all legal “ then he’s best not raising his social media profile on this any more than he has done .

 

[jrudge]

I suspect it is something to do with warranty obligations which as far as I know are from the manufacture to to end user

It is going back some years but my s65 had manufacturers warranty of 1 year and and extra from boats.co.uk

I don’t want to fully go into my dealings on a public forum but this to me gave a contractual obligation. Work was not complete and I got fairline to extend their part of the warranty beyond a year.

 

[PalmaTarga]

whoever sold the OP the boat may not be a FL dealer anymore. There's been some changes in recent months which may have upset the communication trails.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

OP not happy, and now realises he was dumb to have rejected his boat

Also dumb not to have done his due diligence on the dealer before buying it in the first place. It constantly amazes me that people who have been financially successful in other areas of business are willing to give hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds to one horse boat dealer companies with little or no forethought

 

[volvopaul]

Also dumb not to have done his due diligence on the dealer before buying it in the first place. It constantly amazes me that people who have been financially successful in other areas of business are willing to give hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds to one horse boat dealer companies with little or no forethought

If we delved into some bank accounts they would make interesting reading , a lot of trust is put into builders never mind dealers .

 

[jfm]

Also dumb not to have done his due diligence on the dealer before buying it in the first place. It constantly amazes me that people who have been financially successful in other areas of business are willing to give hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds to one horse boat dealer companies with little or no forethought

If we delved into some bank accounts they would make interesting reading , a lot of trust is put into builders never mind dealers .

Indeed. What amazes me is how people withhold the final payment on a new boat until a squeaky hinge or something trivial is fixed by the dealer/PDI team, when builder doesn't sign over ownership of boat till full payment made.

When my last Sq78 was built, I paid the entire £2.5m purchase price soon after the engines were in and the boat was topped, but very still unfinished, and i got full documented ownership of the 3/4 finished boat. If builder goes bust I'm in a much better position than hoping a liquidator gives my 50% stage payments back, and the factory would still finish the boat for me if I paid the liquidator a bit more. If builder doesn't go bust I'm no worse off. Win win, sort of, imho.

You're right - people should be a lot more worried when transacting with some builders and dealers. Some people on here will have more cash personally than Princess, Fairline, Itama, Sunseeker and many others have. Avoiding these risks is a big benefit of buying a stock boat or 2nd hand (speaking as a not practising what I preach-er).

 

[jfm]

warranty obligations which ... are from the manufacture to to end user.

Yes exactly. The boat purchase contract is between boater and boat dealer. The boat warranty contract is between boater and boat builder - same as if you buy a fridge. The engine warranty is contract between boater and engine maker, and so on, which is not the same as if you buy a fridge.

 

[Ahoy there]

Brixham south Devon

 

[Portofino]

Brixham south Devon

Has it got teak side decks ?
Remember I’ve seen them fitted .