Expensive watches on boats.

[Obi]

I think in a previous similar thread someone calculated that as the value of his Rolex had risen over the years, its value from date of purchase equated to Rolex paying him to own and wear it.

Models like mine are now selling for more than three times what it cost new 11 years ago.

Don't buy the Porsche. I have had 2, the times for sensible Porsche ownership are long gone. Why ?

1) Main dealers, and the parent company used to be enthusiasts. Post Boxster and brand revival (rather than the looming bankruptcy of the 90s) the entire brand has shifted focus to a much more profit centric and cynical approach to revenue, customers and the cars. What this means in real terms: People I used to know who would spend thousand on parts for cars they were renovating used to have excellent relationships with the dealers. Sometime mid 2000s Porsche lost interest in anyone not buying new, or high end and customers I know got seriously cheesed off with all four of the areas main dealers as they turned thier back on life long customers.
2) Porsche - it is like a disease, one you have to talk about. The only people you can talk to about it is other owners, believe me, your friends and family do not want to talk about your Porsche. I found people would engage me and talk about my Boxster, but when it came to the 911 it was like people had a blind spot and refused to acknowledge it, and even petrol head friends I have known for decades never ever mentioned the word "Porsche" in my presence, not even when talking about cars and their own pride and joy.
3) So, the amazing Porsche "scene" of friendly owners, and great trips to great places in convoy. It used to be great. Now, it is full of people who have the same mind set as those who talk about Property Prices all the time because Porsches have rocketed in value. It has attracted a different kind of person, and a lot of investor owners.
4) Dealers are ripping people off. Quoting main dealer (2015): "Those two exhaust bolts have corroded, we can deal with them now for £1200 or if you leave it, it will likely be about £1800 in another six months. This comment after 5 years of ownership of two cars and always going to main dealer.
5) The prices are a ridiculously inflated bubble. I looked at a 930 in 2006, had a lot of work at a Porsche specialist: Full bare metal respray, reuphoster of all interior to factory spec, new carpets, full rewired, rebuilt engine and gear box, new suspension, brand new wheels, and more... It was £15,995. Now that car is over £70,000. It is just a house of cards imo. This is that car, the one that got away:



Here is me and the guys back in 2012 doing Porsche things.
2012:

2013:

My 911 which I had for 12 years:

 

[boomerangben]

I remember my early days in the diving industry, going to a meeting and marvelling at how many Rolex watches there were. Most of them battered and scratched after half a career knocking about on the bottom of the North and other rather inhospitable Seas. Now I see pristine Rolex on arms of people who have never been scuba diving. It’s such a shame that a piece of high precision science and engineering has gone to waste. I don’t get watches really unless they are determined to be the best tool for the job. Otherwise they just shout out “look at what I can buy”. I would have thought a guitar would say much more about who you are, not what you can buy (assuming of course you can play it!)

 

[Stemar]

Each to his own, but I wouldn't take either an expensive watch or an expensive guitar on a boat. The risk of damage is just too great. By all means have a great guitar at home, but have a cheapy for on board. You can find decent ones for not a lot of money, and you'll be far less upset when it takes a suicide leap off the table. The cheapy may take a lot more care to set up than the expensive one to play right, but it can be done, and few people will be able to hear the difference.

I just don't get expensive watches. A cheap one will tell the time just as well, and a Rolex or similar just announces to the local thieves that you're worthy of their attention.

 

[chrishscorp]

Here is me and the guys back in 2012 doing Porsche things.
2012:

2013:

Enjoyed both of those videos stunning scenery, how many times did you get pulled over and given tickets.

 

[PCUK]

Each to his own, but I wouldn't take either an expensive watch or an expensive guitar on a boat. The risk of damage is just too great. By all means have a great guitar at home, but have a cheapy for on board. You can find decent ones for not a lot of money, and you'll be far less upset when it takes a suicide leap off the table. The cheapy may take a lot more care to set up than the expensive one to play right, but it can be done, and few people will be able to hear the difference.

I just don't get expensive watches. A cheap one will tell the time just as well, and a Rolex or similar just announces to the local thieves that you're worthy of their attention.

I have a small collection of quality watches. I also collect die cast British sports car models and drive an X class rather than an L200. I just enjoy the satisfaction of owning quality items. Now, fake watches I don't understand. People who have them are just saying they have nothing and don't expect that to change. But each to his own. If Fred wants a nice watch, good luck to him.

 

[fredrussell]

That's not a mid-life crisis, that's complete madness!

A good guitar will be much more fun than a watch. You'll spend far more time admiring the look of it, let alone playing it, and enjoy it far more than any watch. It would quite likely significantly enrich your life, and in a way no watch ever could.

fair points all John, BUT… surely an expensive guitar is exactly the same as an expensive watch in so much as it’s virtually identical in appearance to the cheaper copy, will feel very similar indeed to play and to all but the most discerning ear will sound nigh on identical - especially once it’s gone through an effects pedal or two and a nice amp. Same as a nice watch; the value to the owner is knowing they have something that is beautifully engineered and built to last.
As you know, my expensive guitar would be a Gibson ES335. Just about every review I’ve read of the much cheaper Epiphone ES335 says how good they are and a very good copy at a fifth of the price. But to have the real deal… priceless!
And apols to non guitar enthusiasts for rambling on.

 

[fredrussell]

Don't buy the Porsche. I have had 2, the times for sensible Porsche ownership are long gone.

Lovely cars Obi, always liked them. Trouble is, for me it would HAVE to be an air cooled one and as you say, they are now silly money. You can now get a post air cooled 911 for not much north of £10k but I get the impression many would only keep them until they received their first dealership work or service bill!

 

[Obi]

fair points all John, BUT… surely an expensive guitar is exactly the same as an expensive watch in so much as it’s virtually identical in appearance to the cheaper copy, will feel very similar indeed to play and to all but the most discerning ear will sound nigh on identical - especially once it’s gone through an effects pedal or two and a nice amp.
Same as a nice watch; the value to the owner is knowing they have something that is beautifully engineered and built to last.
As you know, my expensive guitar would be a Gibson ES335. Just about every review I’ve read of the much cheaper Epiphone ES335 says how good they are and a very good copy at a fifth of the price. But to have the real deal… priceless!
And apols to non guitar enthusiasts for rambling on.

My guitar teacher was very excited to get an Epiphone Nighthawk. He was a little surprised when it sounded the same as my Yamaha when played through Line6 modelling gear. I think this proves the point to a degree. However, had the two guitar been put through an amp that didn't model the sound then they would have sounded very different. The first time I played a Fender Tele it felt like I was putting on an expensive silk shirt and played beautifully.

I think a guitar could suffer from moist sea air in ways a waterproof watch would not.

 

[Zing]

Of course they will want to check! By the way my Seamaster is totally accurate.

My Breitling was accurate to better than 1 second a day for years until it lost the plot. £800 for a service to fix it. That takes the shine off a nice watch.

 

[Dellquay13]

fair points all John, BUT… surely an expensive guitar is exactly the same as an expensive watch in so much as it’s virtually identical in appearance to the cheaper copy, will feel very similar indeed to play and to all but the most discerning ear will sound nigh on identical - especially once it’s gone through an effects pedal or two and a nice amp. Same as a nice watch; the value to the owner is knowing they have something that is beautifully engineered and built to last.
As you know, my expensive guitar would be a Gibson ES335. Just about every review I’ve read of the much cheaper Epiphone ES335 says how good they are and a very good copy at a fifth of the price. But to have the real deal… priceless!
And apols to non guitar enthusiasts for rambling on.

Re Gibson, I’m a total LP fanatic, but my two Japanese Tokai replicas far outshine my two Nashville factory Gibsons, all of them 40 years old or more. The Gibsons have been improved with aftermarket parts like tuners and pickups while the Tokais remain stock. The Gibsons go onstage, the Tokais go to the studio, but that is forum drift not thread drift

 

[Obi]

Enjoyed both of those videos stunning scenery, how many times did you get pulled over and given tickets.

They are good films, thanks.

In 2012, six of us got stopped by the Swiss police and all had to pay a fine. One instance a little unfair because there was no evidence to back up the accusation that three of us had crossed a solid white line, but cost me and two others 400chf each. The police did not have a registration number to identify which of the many black 911s that were on the road at that time were the guilty ones, so they just picked three of us and said "This is Switzerland, you have no human rights, pay or go to jail".

One lad was stopped in France and got a warning.
In Scotland the nice officer found our cars in a car park and was looking over them whilst we had lunch. He just wanted to look at the cars. The general attitude and response from the various forces (except the Swiss) was "We appreciate these cars can be safe at speed and have great handling and braking, just don't overdo it OK? Enjoy yourselves lads".
For some reason, the Swiss police were convinced we were Gumball Rally.

2013, exiting the Pyrenees towards Rialp there were many squad cars and two helicopters. Somehow we heard the police co-coordinating a road block over our VHF radios. Needless to say, they didn't find us. French Police stopped one of the GT2s who had been lagging behind a few miles, a landslide in the mountains separated us and he had about a 150 mile detour to meet us at the hotel. He put his foot down and got caught, but again the French police just gave him a warning. There were a few other incidents as well.

Heading down the last section off the Route Napoleon towards St Paul de Vence, there was a long section of hair pins as we descended down the hill side. A little Peugeot 106 diesel came up behind us, I think everyone tried to give him a run for his money, but no one could shake him off and he eventually overtook the cars behind me, came up behind me, he was too quick, I pulled over to let him past. So, either we were not as quick as we thought we were, or the guy in the 106 was a legend

 

[[194224]]

............ Now I see pristine Rolex on arms of people who have never been scuba diving. It’s such a shame that a piece of high precision science and engineering has gone to waste. I don’t get watches really unless they are determined to be the best tool for the job. Otherwise they just shout out “look at what I can buy”. I would have thought a guitar would say much more about who you are, not what you can buy (assuming of course you can play it!)

I see what you mean but there is perhaps another perspective. I don't wear mine just to say "look at what I can buy" because I simply cannot afford to buy a like for like replacement for my 1970s red writing sub. One with all the papers, box etc in good condition is going to cost me well over £20,000. Did I buy it because it was the best tool for the job? No to that one as well.

I bought it firstly due to some sort of sentiment as I was a serving submariner (hence receiving extra pay, thank you) and secondly because I believed it might be a good investment piece. That hope has certainly been realised. I also keep it on a NATO strap mainly for safety reasons but also to reduce the unseemly bling factor. The "proper" strap is nestling in its box.

 

[LittleSister]

fair points all John, BUT… surely an expensive guitar is exactly the same as an expensive watch in so much as it’s virtually identical in appearance to the cheaper copy, will feel very similar indeed to play and to all but the most discerning ear will sound nigh on identical - especially once it’s gone through an effects pedal or two and a nice amp. Same as a nice watch; the value to the owner is knowing they have something that is beautifully engineered and built to last.
As you know, my expensive guitar would be a Gibson ES335. Just about every review I’ve read of the much cheaper Epiphone ES335 says how good they are and a very good copy at a fifth of the price. But to have the real deal… priceless!
And apols to non guitar enthusiasts for rambling on.

Ok, then, that's your answer. An Epiphone (or one of the other similar price point 335 copies), and get your standing rigging done?

(Perhaps plus a £25 quid watch that tells better time as well as, if not better than a Rolex! Also, if maintaining you rigging is a, er, stretch, how are you going to get on with keeping your Rolex serviced? )

The main point is that an expensive watch is not going to make you a better time-teller. A good quality musical instrument (whatever brand*) will result in you enjoying your playing music more, and doing it more. That's quite likely to lead to you becoming a better musician, but more importantly it facilitates you becoming more 'you' - doing something that engages you as an individual, and is an expression of yourself.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Models like mine are now selling for more than three times what it cost new 11 years ago.

Don't buy the Porsche. I have had 2, the times for sensible Porsche ownership are long gone. Why ?

1) Main dealers, and the parent company used to be enthusiasts. Post Boxster and brand revival (rather than the looming bankruptcy of the 90s) the entire brand has shifted focus to a much more profit centric and cynical approach to revenue, customers and the cars. What this means in real terms: People I used to know who would spend thousand on parts for cars they were renovating used to have excellent relationships with the dealers. Sometime mid 2000s Porsche lost interest in anyone not buying new, or high end and customers I know got seriously cheesed off with all four of the areas main dealers as they turned thier back on life long customers.
2) Porsche - it is like a disease, one you have to talk about. The only people you can talk to about it is other owners, believe me, your friends and family do not want to talk about your Porsche. I found people would engage me and talk about my Boxster, but when it came to the 911 it was like people had a blind spot and refused to acknowledge it, and even petrol head friends I have known for decades never ever mentioned the word "Porsche" in my presence, not even when talking about cars and their own pride and joy.
3) So, the amazing Porsche "scene" of friendly owners, and great trips to great places in convoy. It used to be great. Now, it is full of people who have the same mind set as those who talk about Property Prices all the time because Porsches have rocketed in value. It has attracted a different kind of person, and a lot of investor owners.
4) Dealers are ripping people off. Quoting main dealer (2015): "Those two exhaust bolts have corroded, we can deal with them now for £1200 or if you leave it, it will likely be about £1800 in another six months. This comment after 5 years of ownership of two cars and always going to main dealer.
5) The prices are a ridiculously inflated bubble. I looked at a 930 in 2006, had a lot of work at a Porsche specialist: Full bare metal respray, reuphoster of all interior to factory spec, new carpets, full rewired, rebuilt engine and gear box, new suspension, brand new wheels, and more... It was £15,995. Now that car is over £70,000. It is just a house of cards imo. This is that car, the one that got away:
View attachment 152357


Here is me and the guys back in 2012 doing Porsche things.
2012:

2013:

My 911 which I had for 12 years:
View attachment 152355

I will take issue with some of that, I bought my first Porsche 18 months ago a lowly 2011 982.2 3.4S, it's an excellent car and I enjoy it, I have had exemplary if expensive service from Porsche garages. Early last year it developed an intermittent noise when steering ( slight grating) put it into Porsche main agents for a service and check and they could only find a slightly low fluid level but not below the low level mark. As I was about to do something like 1500Km in it going to Italy I specifically asked if everything was OK and they said yes, no problem. Everything was fine until we got to Sardinia on the way back and on pulling out of the hotel the noise came back. We were on a tight schedule having to drive back up to the North of the island from Cagliari to catch an afternoon ferry. I drove straight to the Porsche agents explained the problem and they put it straight into the workshop pulled a technician off another job put it into service mode and topped up ( filled) the reservoir all FOC, we got home just as it started to grumble again. Took it straight to the Porsche agents reminded the service manager that he said it wouldn't be a problem, they gave me a new Mercedes as a curtsey car and kept it for two days. the result was that they found a small leak on a valve on the steering rack which only became a problem when really driving it enthusiastically on twisty roads. They replaced the valve and the pump FOC and said they didn't think ( were sure) the rack was undamaged but if it proved to be a problem they would replace it. That's pretty good service I think for an 11 year old car that neither garage had sold.

Nice videos I have a hankering after a 911having been introduced to the marque but will give the Boxster a few years but no doubt will bite the bullet before it's too late, which model I don't know yet.

 

[Skylark]

Are they any good when using a sextant?

I've had a cheap digital Casio Wave Ceptor watch for about 20 years, but have often wondered if an analogy watch would be easier to use?

No different to any other timepiece used for celestial navigation.

Several options for the recreational navigator. One is to set and monitor for a few weeks in advance of the passage and hence create a calibration curve, eg, it gains or loses x seconds over y days. Simply use it to note times of Hs then apply any adjustment during the sight reduction process. Another option is to regularly check and adjust during the passage against a Time Signal from any available HF broadcast station. For example:-

https://www.dxinfocentre.com/time.htm

 

[PCUK]

My Breitling was accurate to better than 1 second a day for years until it lost the plot. £800 for a service to fix it. That takes the shine off a nice watch.

It's possible to get factory trained service from other than Breitling. My Chrono Cockpit stopped working after many years and believe it or not I had it repaired by Timpsons who have a factory approved repair centre. Still cost just over £300 including 12 month warranty but running perfectly now.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You can probably all remember the saga of me having my gold Rolex day-date stolen off my wrist in Naples last year. I haven't replaced it with another as I have a Breitling, an omega De Ville and a vintage Rolex Prince all of which I periodically wear when the occasion arrises. I did buy an Apple Ultra which is my daily wear with a small portion of the insurance payout. I have had expensive watches for a long time during which time I have been a climber, diver, sailor and parascender and never wore any of them during those activities although I did wear my old 80s Seiko diving watch on a rubber strap for all of them except climbing. Never got into the habit of using ph phone as something to tell the time though.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

What's a watch for ? Havn't had one for 60 years , never been late for anything .

Nowadays the younger generation seem to have forsaken watches and refer to their phones to tell the time.

 

[The Q]

There are half a dozen watches in the bottom of the river keeping fish awake over the last 40+ years. Generally ripped off my wrist by sheets while tacking up the river.
No way would I use an expensive watch.

Neither would I used a phone as a timer on the river, I've pulled out too many people over the years panicking over the phone in their pocket ( both competitors and non competitors).

I use Casio waveceptor watches, as they are locked to the radio time signal they are always 100% correct. The club uses a radio clock in the starters box,. So they are always correct. No playing with stop watches. Just look at your watch and go at the correct time.

 

[Zing]

It's possible to get factory trained service from other than Breitling. My Chrono Cockpit stopped working after many years and believe it or not I had it repaired by Timpsons who have a factory approved repair centre. Still cost just over £300 including 12 month warranty but running perfectly now.

Timpsons! It’s true, you can get it done by non-brand places.