Exhaust insulation Asbestos?

[Jamesuk]

Hi guys,

We have a leak between the engine (225 Perkins Sabre) and the Water separator under the insulation where I imagine steam from a hidden crack in the exhaust welding is condensing to form droplets of salt water. I began taking it apart then realised it could be something less playful so stopped and here I am seeking advice.

Would it be asbestos insulation. The material is fibre-ous and shortly after I started i began to itch (a bit like fibreglass on the skin) So I stopped took off the paint mask and goggles and thought best seek some advice.

Anyone have any thoughts. The area is so small I feel like I could get stuck in there and do the job quick but a quick browse under the Government HSE.gov.uk site and I thought I would get another opinion from ybw.com.

cheers in advanced (PS no training with Asbestos - Also I just had someone say from another boat it might be Asbestos.

James

 

[fisherman]

Asbestos exhaust wrap became unavailable, question is, when. And did someone have some left over. Superceded by glass fibre, which is just as itchy, but, maybe, less toxic. Hate the stuff! Taped up cuffs, gloves, and a good mask, deffo. If asbestos you might ameliorate by soaking, which I think is the preferred method.

 

[pvb]

I really wouldn't worry too much, just take sensible precautions (mask, gloves, etc). Even if it is asbestos, such limited exposure won't, with sensible precautions, pose any problems.

 

[Sandyman]

Your local Council should have a man who will visit & advise you if it is asbestos and the method of its disposal. If it is asbestos they are likely to insist on an approved contractor to remove it. Not much help I know but that's the legal way to do it.

 

[pvb]

Your local Council should have a man who will visit & advise you if it is asbestos and the method of its disposal. If it is asbestos they are likely to insist on an approved contractor to remove it. Not much help I know but that's the legal way to do it.

Isn't that what many practical boat owners might call "overkill"?

 

[VicS]

I used to work in an industry where a lot of asbestos insulation was used and part of my work included asbestos identification and also monitoring of asbestos fibre concntrations in air.

I have never heard any suggestion that asbestos caused the same type of skin irritation that glass fibres cause.

As suggested use the best possible close fitting mask and gloves. I'd suggest a disposable coverall type of overall.

Dampen it to prevent release of dust and wash down afterwards.

Dispose of all waste safely

If you have access to a reasonably good low power microscope it is fairly easy to distinguish between glass and what might be asbestos.
Asbestos fibres can usually be broken down into finer fibres. Glass fibres cannot. They are solid and will not break down further into finer fibres.

It has to be said of course that to be absolutely certain and to identify the various types of asbestos specialised polarised light microscopy techniques or X ray diffraction are required but the above is a pretty good guide.

 

[sarabande]

one of the recommended ways of getting the asbestos fibres to bond together is to soak the bandage in Copydex adhesive.

I've got that job to do on my old STuart Turner

 

[Jamesuk]

A photo is much better as you can see there are two materials or at least it looked like the original was not good enough so they put on another layer which I was almost completely removed.

 

[dleroc]

Take a sample of the material by spray it with water and putting it into a polythene freezer type bag - double wrapped. Take it to a laboratory who are licensed to analyse it - yellow pages will show.
They will charge about £25.

If this was there originally, what is the age of the boat as most asbestos used for this type of insulation was prohibited by the early 1980's? If it was installed before this date it will be either brown or blue asbestos with a slight bit of white added for strength. Disturbance of this type in a dry state will liberate copious amounts of fibres and contaminate other areas of the boat.

I hate to be a doom monger on this subject but for the last 30 years I have been training people on how to remove it safely throughout the UK and Europe. I have known 2 friends who died of Mesothelioma (connected with exposure to blue or brown) and whose only known exposure was up to 40 years previously - others have developed this disease after 12 years.

I hope this is helpful. Please PM me if I can help further.

 

[misterg]

How old is it? It will cost you ~£20 to get a sample checked for asbestos (usually in a day, or so).

The HSE (bless their little cotton socks) actually publish useful, free guidance for "small" "asbestos" jobs (my words - see for yourself...)

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/index.htm

(A.25 may be representative). It you're tempted to do it yourself then don't use a 'normal' hoover instead of a type 'H'

It *probably* isn't asbestos, but treat it with respect anyway - and treat yourself to a P3 dust mask (any builder's merchant), not a painter's mask which probably won't provide any protection against anything.

Andy

Edit: I started writing this after post #3 - the good advice above appeared while I was writing. Having seen the photo, I doubt it is asbestos, but get a professional opinion.

 

[Jamesuk]

I used to work in an industry where a lot of asbestos insulation was used and part of my work included asbestos identification and also monitoring of asbestos fibre concntrations in air.

Asbestos fibres can usually be broken down into finer fibres. Glass fibres cannot. They are solid and will not break down further into finer fibres.

It has to be said of course that to be absolutely certain and to identify the various types of asbestos specialised polarised light microscopy techniques or X ray diffraction are required but the above is a pretty good guide.

The fibres are soft to touch and can be parted easily the material below is also has a bit of movement in it like rope.

 

[dleroc]

Having seen your photo, I have asked my wife as she was an asbestos analyst until about 6 months ago. From the photo the surface material looks like glass fibre but you can;t see if this is covering something else. Just make sure you keep it damp - not drenched until you get a definitive answer.

 

[VicS]

From the picture I'd say it was probably glass

Take the best sensible precautions you can...

Somewhere there should some H&S guidance for tradesman who come across small amounts of what might be asbestos unexpectedly. One of the resident plumbers/heating engineers should able to point it out.

Pictures for interest. ( I did not take them but they were taken by colleagues of mine)
Amosite is the asbestos type that most closely resembles glass but even in the pictures below you can see how the fibres are bundles of finer fibres

 

[Heckler]

A photo is much better as you can see there are two materials or at least it looked like the original was not good enough so they put on another layer which I was almost completely removed.

That looks like glass fibre to me
Stu

 

[LittleShip]

Whatever it is......

If you do decide to remove it yourself, follow the guidance given above, keep it damp and wipe everything down with tack cloths afterwards, and I mean everything. If it is asbestos there is a good chance that the engine room has already has contaminated.

It may not be you that it effects after you have removed it. You will also have to decide how you are going to dispose of the remnants after removal, you cant just throw it in the bin it should be disposed of by a registered asbestos removal company.

Personally I would take the advice of having a small sample tested first, £25 is nothing compared to the cost of boating and your health.

Tom

 

[Alfie168]

I removed an asbestos fireback last week. The HSE website gives excellent guidelines, and certain small works (defined on the HSE site) are non licenceable operations, so you can undertake them without a specialist remover, provided you take the necessary precautions.

Its difficult to be certain whether that is asbestos or not, but safer to assume it is unless proven otherwise.

I have had asbestos awareness training, though its a few years ago now. Last week I wore a disposable suit, a P3 mask, coveralls on shoes, sprayed the board with water. There were no breakages and everything was double bagged into first a clear plastic asbestos marked bag, then into a red one. I used a cheap dustpan and brush to clear up, followed by wiping with damp J cloths. All went in the bags

One exposure in unfavourable circumstances can prove fatal. They have done post mortems where a single fibre has been found, and that has initiated the asbestosis. Most people are a lot luckier, but ironically the father of the lady whose old fire I was removing died of asbestosis, and she was quite impressed with my precautions. It seemed a lot of faff frankly, but you never know.

Tim

 

[nigelmercier]

Would it be asbestos insulation...

Unlikely, but even if it is, just keep it damp while you remove it.

Anyone remember RawlPlastic? It was a fibrous material that you mixed with water to plug irregular holes in masonry before screwing. The way this was used was by putting a ball in your hand, taking a breath and spitting on it. It was asbestos!

 

[ffiill]

Some years ago I got an old Rayburn oven off a friend-the caseing had rusted through-it was clearly late 1940s vintage and full of asbestos insulation.
Wearing a dust respirator/mask I liberally soaked it with water and continued to do so whilst removing the offending asbestos and sealing it in plastic bags.
Recall I then buried it deep down.
Replaced it with glassfibre insulating wool of variety you insulate lofts-totally effective and after attacking some with a blow tourch appears totally fire proof-at worst it melts when subject to very high temperatures.
PS of couse then there were the asbestos brake linings-ouch!

 

[DownWest]

Around '67 we bought an AGA of some friends. They had sold their house but the new owners did not want it, only a year old. I watched the builder dismantle it and took notes. He said it was the last one he would touch because the 'Keiselgur' (sp) insulation was not very good for you. Found out later that it was asbestos.....
I fitted it to our new house, but used mica insulation. But there must have been a lot of residual stuff around, not counting the amount wandering around the friends house. Not sure if it was the 'bad' stuff. So far so good...
DW

 

[misterg]

Recall I then buried it deep down.

Don't do that

Many "tips"[1] have skips for asbestos - there will be one in your (or the OP's area).

Andy


[1] Probably called a "recycling amenity" now.