ex charter boat survey

[pathfinderstu]

hi all, have bitten the bullet and put a deposit down on a ex moorings charter yacht, a beneteau 43.
i am going to visit the boat shortly for an ispection prior to having it docked and surveyed, the idea is to try and save some survey fees by doing some of the dog work myself.
i would be very interested in any advice on what to lookout for.
cheers.

 

[jonic]

the idea is to try and save some survey fees

Ex charter? Fees to a good surveyor will be very well spent.

 

[pathfinderstu]

Ex charter? Fees to a good surveyor will be very well spent.

i realise that , but at around 1000euros i am trying to do some of the semi skilled stuff to reduce the costs of an expert doing it and am hoping to get some tips from people with experiance of this kind of thing.

 

[sarabande]

PFS - while the principle of doing your own inspection for certain parts is very commendable, and will certainly make you familiar with some of the less frequently seen components of the boat, I would be concerned that in the physical and procedural gaps between your survey and that of a proper professional, there may fall certain parts or items which require remedial attention - whether superficial or seriosu.

There are a number of websites with check lists for purchasing a boat, but I would anticipate any surveyor "sharing" an inspection would be reluctant to sign off the whole boat, even if you hand him a comprehensive tick list of what you have done.

It is, however, quite common to hand the engine side over to a specialist, or perhaps the electronics, but a division of labour in the way you have described is, shall we say, unusual.

A decent surveyor may well be delighted to have you tag along with him or her while s/he is working, so that s/he can share info during the survey process, but that should be cleared well in advance.

Try here for background

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/


EDIT

Oh, have you made the deposit a returnable one in case there arises a 'show-stopper' of a problem with the surveys ?

 

[dt4134]

You won't save money on the survey itself, but you will maybe determine whether it is even worthwhile going ahead with a survey. However you should really have done that before putting a deposit down.

It depends what skills you have yourself as to what you can do yourself.

You can check everything that should work does when you switch it on. Check the batteries (although if they're on charge they'll look good whatever the real condition).

Check the sails very thoroughly. Charter boats tend not to have good ones to start with, never mind by the time they've reached the end of the boat's charter life. Conservatively you may as well assume they're shot and will have to be replaced soon, but if you've already fixed the price there's really no more room for negotiation there.

A surveyor is very unlikely to check the engine out more than superficially, and if he does it will be extra. Just check it starts easily and check the exhaust. A charter boat is more likely than most to have had the gear box abused.

You can also check for repairs to the hull. Bad ones should be obvious, good ones will be as good as new. Looking at light reflected on the hull should show up irregularities. Also look for signs internally of structure being moved to get at the hull or signs of internal work.

I suspect you are already really committed (as you've put down the deposit) so really you've got to go ahead with the survey and follow the surveyor's advice on what he finds. You can renegotiate the price if the survey finds faults you didn't know about.

Make sure you're there for the survey.

 

[nimbusgb]

Most surveys I've watched have taken about 1/2 a day to complete. Call it a day with the write up. Surveys where the bod has gone up the mast to inspect fittings or where the engine has been more than started and run for 10 minutes are few and far between. €1000 for a days work. Nice if you can get it.

How old is the boat. Do you need a survey? I have yet to hear of anyone successfully getting money back from a surveyor following a sale and survey that missed a big problem. ( Let alone compensation for the angst, time and hassle ) Check with your proposed insurers if they'll accept a full condition report and then go over the boat with a fine toothcomb, camera and some common sense.

You've jumped in at the deep end having laid down the deposit first though.

 

[pathfinderstu]

thanks for that its more like the kind of answer i was looking for,
with moorings the 10% deposit is held in an escrow deposit and returned if something serious shows up and you want to pull out
i may well pullout of having a survey done if i can not find any serious faults and thanks for the tip about sails etc.
i have asked about if any damage has been done in the past or warentee work and the broker checked the boats maintainance records and says no.
my idea is that if nothing derogetry shows up inside then fine, but if there are any repair signs or signs of osmosis when pulled out of the water. then i will call in a surveyor for a full report.
the boat was a great price and i need to keep costs down, a local marine engineer friend will be checking the mechanics out.

 

[Richard10002]

hi all, have bitten the bullet and put a deposit down on a ex moorings charter yacht, a beneteau 43.
i am going to visit the boat shortly for an ispection prior to having it docked and surveyed, the idea is to try and save some survey fees by doing some of the dog work myself.
i would be very interested in any advice on what to lookout for.
cheers.

Where is it, and who is charging €1000?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Check for things like this ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/108343...authkey=Gv1sRgCPT_t9eMud6Z8AE&feat=directlink

The charter company didn't know it had been grounded (not visible to the diver) and the floor is never lifted during the season so no-one saw it.

Of approx 20 charter boats I viewed in 2011, I'd say almost 50% of them had some serious damage somewhere - and having seen the antics of some of the crews in the Adriatic I can understand why.

Having said that - I bought ex-charter and there are plenty of boats that 'escape' - you just need to find one.

 

[Blueboatman]

Well done baggy wrinkle , perhaps the OP will listen to your sound wisdom. But a deposit has already been put down boat unseen, seemingly.
Everyone has differing comfort levels of risk they are happy with but if it ends in tears, it is the OP not the vendor who is paying for the tears.
GET A PROPER survey, not some mate of a mate in a bar who knows boats and is er inexpensive.
Remember all those urban myths about dodgy fleet operators swapping bits around between boats in days of old?
Yup, I am playing devils advocate and I'm not even charging the OP a penny for it .

 

[Beau Nidle]

thanks for that its more like the kind of answer i was looking for,
with moorings the 10% deposit is held in an escrow deposit and returned if something serious shows up and you want to pull out
i may well pullout of having a survey done if i can not find any serious faults and thanks for the tip about sails etc.
i have asked about if any damage has been done in the past or warentee work and the broker checked the boats maintainance records and says no.
my idea is that if nothing derogetry shows up inside then fine, but if there are any repair signs or signs of osmosis when pulled out of the water. then i will call in a surveyor for a full report.
the boat was a great price and i need to keep costs down, a local marine engineer friend will be checking the mechanics out.

Get a survey - end of.

I have now pulled out of deals on two boats that looked fine to me, but turned out to need repairs that made them fundamentally unsafe an basically worthless.

In both cases the surveyor has effectively saved me from taking a suitcase full of money and sinking it in the channel somewhere.

 

[ridgy]

If you intend on going without a survey then you should establish if you can insure the boat without one. Which you probably can't. You might focus your efforts on finding a more reasonable surveyor, though you didn't say how big the boat is. 1000E could be deemed reasonable on a 50 footer.

 

[Bobc]

I don't think the OP is suggesting that he's intentding to buy without a survey, he just wants to give it the once-over himself first on the basis that if it turns out to be a complete shed, then he's just saved himself a survey fee.

Comments I would make are as follws:-

1./ It's an ex-charter boat, so don't expect a pampered pet. It will have bumps and bruises in the topsides and chunks out of the gelcoat on the deck and in the cockpit, the engine will have had some work done etc. When something goes wrong or breaks, the focus of a charter company is typically to get it working again and back out on charter, so you'll find some bodge-ups. Generally speaking, as long as you have plenty of time to spend on it, you will be able to tidy-up most of these over time yourself.

2./ Grounding damage is the biggy. Check around the keel (especially at the back) and floorpan for cracking. ANY signs of cracks at all, walk away. Also get into the aft section and check around the rudder post for the same.

3./ Rig. Quite often you get muppets over-tightening the rig. Check the shroud plates at deck level for any cracking. This will give you a clue. Also over-tensioning can bend the boat, so make sure the doors close properly, and look at the main bulkheads for any signs of warping.

4./ Engine. Just run it up and check for smoke from the exhaust (blue or black smoke is bad, white smoke probably means the injectors are gummed-up or the pump timing's out or something like that). Also check the coolant level and make sure it's ok and not losing coolant. Drop it into gear and listen for any nasty noises from the gearbox.

5./ Electrics. Check that things like the anchor windlass work (charter guests often try pulling the boat up by it's anchor, and can put massive loads on the windlass). Other than that, just turn everything on. I would expect it not to be perfect but most of the expensive stuff should be working.

6./ Sails & upholstery. You should go into this with the assumption that you're going to replace both, and this is why the boat is cheap. Expect no more than that and you'll be fine.

Hope that helps you.

Bob

 

[little_roundtop]

hi all, have bitten the bullet and put a deposit down on a ex moorings charter yacht, a beneteau 43.
i am going to visit the boat shortly for an ispection prior to having it docked and surveyed, the idea is to try and save some survey fees by doing some of the dog work myself.
i would be very interested in any advice on what to lookout for.
cheers.

We bough an ex-charter and had her properly surveyed (a two-day job, including a test sail). I doubt you'll save any money by doing a "survey" yourself. The surveyor (if he's any good) will want to be sure to "cover his arse" and will check everything you've checked anyway. Thus no survey money will be saved.

 

[tawhiri]

Survey

I purchased my (under 30 footer) without a survey, but I looked at quite a few dogs before finding her. She was also privatly owned.
I would get a survey done if she is over 40 feet because the cost is a small percentage of the price, and the surveyor will find something to save 1000 Euro.

 

[chinita]

I strongly suggest that you buy this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Surveying-Yachts-Small-Craft-Stevens/dp/1408114038

Read it on the plane and you will be pretty well prepared.

Not suggesting it replaces a survey but it will also give you a good handle on what to expect from the surveyor.

 

[johnlilley]

Hi there
if you go to my website you can see an owner's checklist for survey , if you would like the whole document FOC then just Email me if it is of any interest. No strings attached just useful information & a structured way of looking before any survey takes place. Go to the Survey link & pre survey list. It is quite a long list.

Regards


John

 

[rob2]

Buying long-distance is a worry and I appreciate that the OP wants to assure himself that there is no glaringly obvious reason not to purchase before survey. With the sums involved though (even if the price is a steal) employing a qualified and insured surveyor to protect yourself is a sound investment - and likely to be the only basis on which negotiations will be accepted by the vendor.

When I bought my boat, I had visited it twice, once with the vendor present and once alone allowing me to dig deeper into the hidden recesses of the boat. Luckily, the surveyor needed me present to gain access, so I was able to shadow him during the survey and discuss any issues arising - but don't hamper him with continual questions or chatter. It was also helpful that I had poked around and found access to things that would otherwise have been left unseen by the surveyor. We saved some time, as I could empty out the lockers ready for him to launch in head first to inspect the rudder tube. The keyword was to make sure you want the boat if it passes survey and co-operate with all parties to reach a satisfactory conclusion. If you can't attend the survey, then make a list of items which concern you which must be addressed in the survey.

Rob.

 

[jimi]

FWIW, I would pay for a full structural survey (including engine) and tell the surveyor your quite capable of checking the cosmetics so you don't need reports on mildew on curtains or scratches on wood work etc.

I think the OP's original question is a valid way of proceeding.

 

[yacht surveyor]

Most surveys I've watched have taken about 1/2 a day to complete. Call it a day with the write up. Surveys where the bod has gone up the mast to inspect fittings or where the engine has been more than started and run for 10 minutes are few and far between. €1000 for a days work. Nice if you can get it.

I don't know where you find someone who surveys a 43 foot sail boat properly in half a day. To do it to a reasonable standard I would expect to start at 9 and finish around 6/7pm (or continue the next day). I cannot think of a surveyor that I rate who would do less. We would not be doing our client justice if we did less.
Writing the survey takes as long as doing it. They can sometimes be written in a day, but as often as not they run to part of a second day.