EU citizen buying used 6M boat in Spain that's on SSR

[Gr1f]

Hi all,
I'm from Ireland and am planning on buying a 2007 6.2m motorboat via private sale that is UK registered. It's been in Spain for quite some time I gather, (possibly since 2007).

I do not live here permanently but am here a lot. The boat will be dry-docked for now.

Does anyone know what needs to be done regarding registration on the boat?

Any help very much appreciated!

 

[westernman]

Hi all,
I'm from Ireland and am planning on buying a 2007 6.2m motorboat via private sale that is UK registered. It's been in Spain for quite some time I gather, (possibly since 2007).

I do not live here permanently but am here a lot. The boat will be dry-docked for now.

Does anyone know what needs to be done regarding registration on the boat?

Any help very much appreciated!

Seller needs to deregister and present you with a certificate of deregistration. This is very quick and easy to do.
You need to arrange insurance before hand-over.

Ensure you get some kind of documentation that the boat has been in Spain the whole time. E.g. marina bills. And preferably a statement from a marina that it was in their marina from December 31st 2021 to January 1st 2022 inclusive.

Then you need to register it on your chosen registry (highly suggest an Irish one) before moving the boat.

All easy. Private sale within EU to new EU owner. No new VATable transaction.

 

[Gr1f]

OK great, thanks for the info!

 

[Irish Rover]

Buyer needs to deregister and present you with a certificate of deregistration. This is very quick and easy to do.
You need to arrange insurance before hand-over.

Ensure you get some kind of documentation that the boat has been in Spain the whole time. E.g. marina bills. And preferably a statement from a marina that it was in their marina from December 31st 2021 to January 1st 2022 inclusive.

Then you need to register it on your chosen registry (highly suggest an Irish one) before moving the boat.

All easy. Private sale within EU to new EU owner. No new VATable transaction.

All good advice and I'm assuming the first word was an inadvertent slip and you mean seller needs to deregister. Registering in Ireland is highly desirable but not that quick and easy and will require a tonnage survey. The procedure for a 6.2m motor boat is much the same in Ireland as it would be for a bulk carrier, unfortunately. Lots of government promises down through the years for an SSR type system but had never happened.

 

[Gr1f]

All good advice and I'm assuming the first word was an inadvertent slip and you mean seller needs to deregister. Registering in Ireland is highly desirable but not that quick and easy and will require a tonnage survey. The procedure for a 6.2m motor boat is much the same in Ireland as it would be for a bulk carrier, unfortunately. Lots of government promises down through the years for an SSR type system but had never happened.

Thanks for that Info.

Survey? Kind of tricky if it's here in Costa Brava unless they use local services? Would it be worth exploring registering in another country that might be an easier process?

 

[westernman]

All good advice and I'm assuming the first word was an inadvertent slip and you mean seller needs to deregister. Registering in Ireland is highly desirable but not that quick and easy and will require a tonnage survey. The procedure for a 6.2m motor boat is much the same in Ireland as it would be for a bulk carrier, unfortunately. Lots of government promises down through the years for an SSR type system but had never happened.

Yes. Seller needs to deregister.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks for that Info.

Survey? Kind of tricky if it's here in Costa Brava unless they use local services? Would it be worth exploring registering in another country that might be an easier process?

You should have no difficulty finding an approved surveyor in Spain - the Department of the Marine/Mercantile Marine Office publish a list of approved professional surveyor organisations and I'll be surprised if you don't find a member of one of those close to you. The Irish registration process is a bit unwieldy but is very doable. I did it mostly via email from Türkiye some 10 years ago and I found the people involved in the various offices extremely helpful. Think of the joy and pride of sailing under the Tricolour. Apart from Jersey [full registration similar to Ireland but a bit easier because you deal with a single office] and Türkiye I have no experience of registering elsewhere but I heae Poland is the flag of convenience currently in fashion.

 

[Gr1f]

Think of the joy and pride of sailing under the Tricolour.

I've just emailed them. Thanks again for the advice!

 

[billskip]

Take your time and investigate through the Spanish authorities what your legal rights and your qualification requirements will be. If a small boat is UK flag its possible to use the boat with an RYA ICC.
allowing you to navigate under certain conditions.
Be careful of listening to ...dont worry about it nobody takes any notice.....
Get as much info as you can from the Spanish authorities.

 

[Gr1f]

Take your time and investigate through the Spanish authorities what your legal rights and your qualification requirements will be. If a small boat is UK flag its possible to use the boat with an RYA ICC.
allowing you to navigate under certain conditions.
Be careful of listening to ...dont worry about it nobody takes any notice.....
Get as much info as you can from the Spanish authorities.

OK thanks for the advise!

I have an Irish ICC to 24M so not sure that qualifies but worth exploring. And agreed, not going to leave myself open to a run-in with authorities! In fairness, the Irish Marine Survey office has been very speedy to respond and have sent me the relevant documents already.

Would you have a link to the relevant Spanish authorities handy?

 

[DavidJ]

Thanks for that Info.

Survey? Kind of tricky if it's here in Costa Brava unless they use local services? Would it be worth exploring registering in another country that might be an easier process?

If you want to go the survey route I’ve just had mine surveyed (an insurance requirement) and I’m in Empuriabrava, Costa Brava.

 

[billskip]

OK thanks for the advise!

I have an Irish ICC to 24M so not sure that qualifies but worth exploring. And agreed, not going to leave myself open to a run-in with authorities! In fairness, the Irish Marine Survey office has been very speedy to respond and have sent me the relevant documents already.

Would you have a link to the relevant Spanish authorities handy?
_________________________________
I haven't got a link to hand and I seem to have a failure in how to post one,hence the co OP with reply.
Anyway start with google and track down info ,jus avoid any advertising.

 

[Gr1f]

OK thanks! Some good info and somerelevant links here I think
RYA qualifications in Spain after BREXIT - The Boat School

 

[westernman]

OK thanks for the advise!

I have an Irish ICC to 24M so not sure that qualifies but worth exploring. And agreed, not going to leave myself open to a run-in with authorities! In fairness, the Irish Marine Survey office has been very speedy to respond and have sent me the relevant documents already.

Would you have a link to the relevant Spanish authorities handy?

You won't have any problems at all - if the boat is not Spanish registered.
Don't ever do that!

 

[Gr1f]

Don't ever do that!

Do what?

 

[westernman]

Do what?

register the boat under the Spanish flag.

 

[billskip]

Do what?

There you go all problems solved..just print out westermans post and give a copy to authorities if your stopped.......

 

[Hurricane]

Yes. Seller needs to deregister.

Why?

AFAIK, registration has nothing to do with the tax status of the boat.
Either the boat was in the EU on the 31st Dec 2020 or it wasn't.
If it was and it hasn't left the EU since than, it will be EU Goods.
Evidence that it was in Spain on that date and that it had originally had VAT paid on it is all that is required.

The OP is Irish so lives in the EU.
It doesn't matter if the boat is UK registered or not.
I agree that he should de-register but I don't believe that it is required.

EDIT
And be careful registering under a Spanish flag.
If the boat is Spanish registered, you may need Spanish qualifications to sail it.

 

[billskip]

Why?

AFAIK, registration has nothing to do with the tax status of the boat.
Either the boat was in the EU on the 31st Dec 2020 or it wasn't.
If it was and it hasn't left the EU since than, it will be EU Goods.
Evidence that it was in Spain on that date and that it had originally had VAT paid on it is all that is required.

The OP is Irish so lives in the EU.
It doesn't matter if the boat is UK registered or not.
I agree that he should de-register but I don't believe that it is required.

EDIT
And be careful registering under a Spanish flag.
If the boat is Spanish registered, you may need Spanish qualifications to sail it.

I think you will fine it is obligatory to cancel UK SSR if you change ownership.
also it is possible that the new owner will have to pay tax on purchase of the boat if he is keeping it in Spain.
Also also the new owner may be responsible for unpaid tax by the previous owner.

 

[Portofino]

Why?

AFAIK, registration has nothing to do with the tax status of the boat.
Either the boat was in the EU on the 31st Dec 2020 or it wasn't.
If it was and it hasn't left the EU since than, it will be EU Goods.
Evidence that it was in Spain on that date and that it had originally had VAT paid on it is all that is required.

The OP is Irish so lives in the EU.
It doesn't matter if the boat is UK registered or not.
I agree that he should de-register but I don't believe that it is required.

EDIT
And be careful registering under a Spanish flag.
If the boat is Spanish registered, you may need Spanish qualifications to sail it.

No one’s linked reg with VAT above as far as I can see ?

It’s illegal to have a boat on two registers simultaneously.
Esp if one the UKs eg SSR which is what we have here .

Previous BoS in this case because U.K. reg is silent in vat status as you correctly infer might be worth chasing .

In case in the future ( you never know ) the 31-12-20 U.K. owner thingy is challenged and the owner losers his case then to prevent this buying a boat from an existing EU resident that’s been on a Sp , Fr , IT and few others means if private ( none leased business charter ) means it must have been VAT paid .Proof is easy you have the dereg docs and old although out of date reg docs when the PO reg d it .

Thats cast iron the least risky .

20-12-2020 was and just is a transition “ get it over the line “ fudge . You are naive to think it’s not gonna be revisited and firmed up . Reviewed .
A soft cash cow recovering tax off “ rich boaters “

Obviously Van der Laynen and Scholz have quite a bit on there plate at the mo , trying to keep the lights on .

Hopefully no retrospection for the Op if they do tidy up the 20-12-20 Looking for €€€ s and him being a EU citizen .But was any VAT at any time ever paid without proof of the original BoS ?

But for U.K. citizen s now finding they are 3 rd parties overstaying 18 months tax free because of a certain fudge , a 11 th hr thing Hmm ? , the 20-12-2020 .
I mean your Australian , South African , or Canadian neighbour might question why he has to play the TA scheme and you don’t .
Some time over the horizon.You now most on here can’t see it coming .