Engine Oil

Eurocarparts has Shell Helix HX5 15W-40 5Ltr for £19.54 per 5ltrs

although the Eurocarparts website doesn't say it the attached picture and the Shell website lists it as API SL/CF

Is it better to buy a premium make rather than something from an unknown source ?
 
KevinT1 said:
Eurocarparts has Shell Helix HX5 15W-40 5Ltr for £19.54 per 5ltrs

although the Eurocarparts website doesn't say it the attached picture and the Shell website lists it as API SL/CF

Is it better to buy a premium make rather than something from an unknown source ?
Click to expand...
In the past 30 yrs i have only bought on the spec not the brand for boat & car
 
JumbleDuck said:
The specification of Yanmar branded oil is

Meets performance criteria for API CI-4 classification, meets or exceeds API CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SJ, the Global DHD-1 specification and all major diesel engine manufacturers.​
Click to expand...

I think that this oil was introduced when the Yanmar YM engines superseded the GM. Right up to the end of the GM run they were specifying API CD that had been obsolete for years. They now seem to have gone down the Volvo 'one size fits all' route. It seems madness to me to specify the same oil for a single cylinder yacht auxiliary as a six-cylinder turbo-charged monster driving a mobo flat out for hour after hour. I suppose that the YM and contemporaries may have material improvements that will cope with this oil but I would be reluctant to use it in an older one.
 
Vic,

So for a turbo charged Yanmar engine with a manual supplied that states API- CD what would you use.

I went to a number of motor factors and Halfords and none had CD hence I ordered it from Morris Lubricants.

For 10 yrs engine was serviced by Yanmar agent as on charter but I do wonder what spec oil most Yanmar Engines run on as from replies on here many think a higher grade oil " covers " the lower grades!

The example you quote on your website of a polished bore caused by using too high a grade oil is a salutary lesson!
 
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Sailfree said:
Vic,

So for a turbo charged Yanmar engine with a manual supplied that states API- CD what would you use.

I went to a number of motor factors and Halfords and none had CD hence I ordered it from Norris Lubricants.

For 10 yrs engine was serviced by Yanmar agent as on charter but I do wonder what spec oil most Yanmar Engines run on as from replies on here many think a higher grade oil " covers " the lower grades!

The example you quote on your website of a polished bore caused by using too high a grade oil is a salutary lesson!
Click to expand...

I assume you mean me? ;) I would not use a viscosity lower than 15w-40 in any older generation engine. I can still buy API CD in Europe but not in UK but if I could not I would buy API CF-4. I have to say that I like the look of API CI, although many of the versions available for sale seem to cover a wide variety of earlier specs, so there is no knowing what the TBN might be.
 
vyv_cox said:
I assume you mean me? ;) I would not use a viscosity lower than 15w-40 in any older generation engine. I can still buy API CD in Europe but not in UK but if I could not I would buy API CF-4. I have to say that I like the look of API CI, although many of the versions available for sale seem to cover a wide variety of earlier specs, so there is no knowing what the TBN might be.
Click to expand...

Thanks vic for the prompt reply - like many on here I do value your advice. Cancelled the original order and spoke to Norris lubricants technical department. They advise that if 15W40 is more important then go for their basic mineral oil Duplex CDX that has a low TBN of 10 but they also state that they wouldn't be concerned if I used their basic mineral oil groundforce that is 10W40. The latter is used on site and agricultural diesel engines that run for hrs at low revs.
Which of the two would you go for please?
 
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On viscosity I am guided by some research results that I saw reported some years ago. The engines used were Triumph Dolomite ones, an industry standard as the big-end length to diameter ratio is rather low. They ran several identical engines with 20w-50, 15w-40 and 5w-30 oils. After some period of flat out motoring the first had no detectable wear, the second had slight but acceptable wear. The third blew up half way through the test! Big-ends had failed catastrophically.

In a long career investigating many oil related failures, and particularly bearings in all sorts of engines, it has become clear to me that good viscosity is essential. Modern engines that use very thin oils have far more advanced metallurgy than our auxiliary engines, with hardened crankshafts, complex aluminium alloy bearings, inlaid piston rings, et., etc.
 
vyv_cox said:
On viscosity I am guided by some research results that I saw reported some years ago. The engines used were Triumph Dolomite ones, an industry standard as the big-end length to diameter ratio is rather low. They ran several identical engines with 20w-50, 15w-40 and 5w-30 oils. After some period of flat out motoring the first had no detectable wear, the second had slight but acceptable wear. The third blew up half way through the test! Big-ends had failed catastrophically.

In a long career investigating many oil related failures, and particularly bearings in all sorts of engines, it has become clear to me that good viscosity is essential. Modern engines that use very thin oils have far more advanced metallurgy than our auxiliary engines, with hardened crankshafts, complex aluminium alloy bearings, inlaid piston rings, et., etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks - one can only speculate but wonder what the results would have been if engines had been subjected to frequent stop starts and never run for more than a few hours at 2000revs.

I notice that Morris Lubricants have a Golden Film 10W40 classic marine oil which they recommend is for Canal Boats and specifically state where 15W40 was originally specified stating it is particularly good for early circulation , thereby reducing wear for cold starts. It appears to be a minefield where its difficult to be 100% correct.

If I cant make up my mind I could mix 50% of Golden Film Marine oil 10W40 with 50% of Duplex CDX 15W40 then I can only be half wrong!!!
 
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Sailfree said:
Vic,

So for a turbo charged Yanmar engine with a manual supplied that states API- CD what would you use.

I went to a number of motor factors and Halfords and none had CD hence I ordered it from Norris Lubricants.

For 10 yrs engine was serviced by Yanmar agent as on charter but I do wonder what spec oil most Yanmar Engines run on as from replies on here many think a higher grade oil " covers " the lower grades!

The example you quote on your website of a polished bore caused by using too high a grade oil is a salutary lesson!
Click to expand...

AFAIK, "Grade" e.g.15W/40, refers to the range of temperatures through which an oil maintains optimum viscosity. API, CD,CH, etc refer to other types of specification.
Remember the days when cars used to require "Winter-Grade" and "Summer-Grade" oils, which were superseded, in the late 60's , I think, by "Multigrade",e.g. 5W/30, 10W/40, etc.
 
Spirit of Glenans said:
Remember the days when cars used to require "Winter-Grade" and "Summer-Grade" oils, which were superseded, in the late 60's , I think, by "Multigrade",e.g. 5W/30, 10W/40, etc.
Click to expand...

The first figure, 5, 10, 15 etc, is the viscosity of the base oil. The relative increase in viscosity in a multigrade is provided by 'viscosity index improvers' that are clever molecules, unwinding as they get warmer. The second figure 30, 40 etc does not give exactly the same conditions as a monograde oil of the same viscosity.
 
CD mineral oil is still readily available in French supermarkets (presumably for cooking). I always pick up a couple of 5ltrs every time I see I see some.

_DSF2131_zpsc9effa27.jpg


I did enter into a email campaign some years ago with Morris of Shrewsbury as they used to make a CD spec. They still make a CC spec for canal boats, but they believe there is not the market in the proper marine industry!

They do still make a CD oil for the horticultural industry called Groundforce.

ftp://ftp-remote.morris-lubricants.co.uk/TDS GForce SAE 10W40.pdf
 
To market an oil as CD spec, it just has to meet the requirements of that spec.
Almost any modern oil will do that, apart from those that are lower in the number before the w.
The unbranded stuff in the post above is probably recycled stuff. It may meet spec when you buy it, but might well break down quicker than a good brand of oil.
Also there are other properties that matter in a good oil, which appaently are not tested in the obsolete specs.
There are good reasons why modern cars have longer service intervals, one of them is modern oil.
There is nothing very magic about low spec oil, but there are traps in using inappropriate modern oils.
If Yanmar have changed from recommending Cd to something else, it's probably for the better.
 
VicS said:
There is a good expanation of the viscosity grade numbers here

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

It is still difficult to get to grips with the meanings of the "W" figures for a multigrade oil. Best to throw away any preconceived ideas of its meaning.
Click to expand...

Thanks for link Vic, read that and agree that viscosity is more important so gone for 15W40. Just have to accept that there is some additives that give it the TBN of 10.

Be interested if anyone else has identified a basic 15W40 mineral oil with the least number of additives that could be harmful to an older marine engine. Will try to find the TBN number of the yanmar supplied oil that I note is now API CF.
 
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sailorman said:
I thought you already had 30 lts in stock :confused:
Click to expand...

No cancelled order for Norris Ground Force 10W40. Someone else mentioned they had got hold of a larger quantity of Miller Oil.

I did originally mention I had diesel oil in the garage and as it was a higher quality asked would it harm the yanmar hence the thread. Its actually a semi synthetic so its a definite no no!!
 
Sailfree said:
No cancelled order for Norris Ground Force 10W40. Someone else mentioned they had got hold of a larger quantity of Miller Oil.

I did originally mention I had diesel oil in the garage and as it was a higher quality asked would it harm the yanmar hence the thread. Its actually a semi synthetic so its a definite no no!!
Click to expand...

Hi, my manual says Choose a lube oil with a rating higher than SAE class CC.

Anyone got a link to the various ratings? I've no idea whats lower or higher than CC !

Many thanks,
Chris

(Also , its a Yanmar 2gm20c if anyone can advise a specific oil).
 
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