engine heaters

[itsonlymoney]

This may sound like a stupid question but,

How reliable are engine heaters. I have this worry in the back of my mind that the darned things will pack up, or there will be a power cut or some git will pull out the shore power cable in the middle of the coldest period this century and total the block. Am I being paranoid or is it safer to split a hose and dump the water from the engine. Are there any other points to be aware of as I have until now winterised my boats and pulled off the water.

Thanks in advance of a reply

Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>I'd rather have a bad day boatin, than a good day workin ! ! !

 

[tcm]

Re: Freezing the motor

You would be verty unlucky indeed to split a hose as a result of the cold. Plastic pipes don't spilt. The split in copper pipes happens cos pure water occupies the smallest volume at 4 degrees - cool further and it actually expands - but only a bit . Thus split pipes are already split when frozen. And they cannot be plastic, otherwise they would give a little. Ignore the poss of this, cos water inthe boat is salty, or has antifreeze. Put more antifreeze in.

You are right to be wurrid about the power, which can be pulled off by a stupid git.

Good idea i saw was a load of crap removal-van-style blankets. Lob these over and around the engine and things. I also blat a load of wd40 over things, and then it didn't rust. Heavy-duty metal things can be sprayed with chain lube.

In real cold weather, on the hard, you can lag the walls of enginebay with more blankets. Also, if poss, if there is an openable hole at the bottom of the bilge as low as poss it wil allow really cold air to escape in the day after a cold night. Sounds daft but true.

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[Jim44]

I have had engine heater fitted for last 3 years, without any problems.

I also worry about them losing power and have found a product, but not purchased yet, which will text your mobile phone if the power fails.

Look at www.mobilarm.co.uk.

I got quoted around £250+vat. This was the cheapest I could find, there are other products from £500 to £1000.

If you find a cheaper one I would be really interest.

Regards

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[tr7v8]

Bit confused by the question and even more by TCMs answer!
If raw water cooled then you're concerned about the seawater freezing in the block. Seawater freeze at a lower temp than fresh and if the boat stays in the water then it needs to be B cold for quite a while for the engine bay to get that cold. I run a couple of 120 watt tubular heaters, one each side of the engine bay. These run on a thermostat and juding by my leccy bill last winter they weren't on often, if at all. The one in the cabin is on a timeswitch as the stat is knacked.
If freshwater cooled then that circuit must have antifreeze in it for corrosion resistance as much as anything else. Most manufacturers reckon on 50/50 mix and that stays the same winter and summer. From memory that shoul be good for about -15 deg C which in an engine bay is mega cold. As regards the seawater side see above. Also if you drain the block down I guarantee that you'll leave some water in the block and when it freezes the block cracks!


<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[itsonlymoney]

Thanks for the reply but I also am confused. Are you saying that it is not neccasary to do anything ie. drain block, and that the engine heaters are a safe method of protection and or are you saying add antifreeze if so were?. Please clarify !

<hr width=100% size=1>I'd rather have a bad day boatin, than a good day workin ! ! !

 

[tr7v8]

Last year my 2 Volvo's were left as they are (as was the drinking water) and I put 2 x 120W greenhouse heaters in the engine bay. Mine are Fresh water cooled so have antifreeze in the f/w circuits at 50/50 all the year round. The heaters were on a thermostat set to 2-3 degC. Judging by the leccy bill not sure if they ever triggered but safe than sorry.
Draining the block if either raw or fresh cooled is not a good idea as A. the pump and other bits dry out and B. unless you do the syphon through with an antifreeze mix then their is every chance that some plain water is in a crevice and IF it freezes will freeze anyway.
I think you're initial concern was the power going off/ unplugged and what I said was that I reckon unless you live somewhere very cold then the chance of A. the power going off and B. the temp dropping that far are fairly unlikely, together even less so. Therefore I reckon that it's an acceptable risk.
I wanted to try a min max themometer to give some definitive answers but didn't however someone who did on the forum reckoned that he never saw less than 3 degC even when it was freezing hard outside. This we'd assumed is due to the heatsink effect of a large body of seawater.



<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[Jim44]

Not sure about the other "help" on here, but here are the facts IMHO

Option 1

Drain engine for winter, can't use engine during period. If you are planning on doing this yourself, seek further advise as I have never done it, but I believe they re fill the engine with an anti freeze mix.

Option 2

Fit engine heaters and a Thermostat and leave on all winter. It will start the heaters when it gets below the temp and stop when it rises again. I have these fitted and they were on over the weekend when I was on the boat.

As far as I know you have to do 1 of the above options to ensure your block does not crack over the winter period.

Not sure what all the talk about blankets and anti-freeze is. If there is any antifreeze in the engine as soon as you turn the engine over it will end up in the lake. As far as i know the engine sucks up water, cools the engine, then returns the water to the lake.

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[itsonlymoney]

Thanks for the info Tr7.

Jim44.
I could'nt work out the antifreeze in the engine bit either, like you I thought engine sucked in water did its cooling job then got spat out again 'somefink we dont know'
Surprised your heaters came on I was up on Sun it was glorious.

In case I didnt clarify the matter for everyone the boat is in freshwater.

Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>I'd rather have a bad day boatin, than a good day workin ! ! !

 

[Jim44]

I was suprised too, think the therostat i set to about 5oC. It was about 6.00pm by the time we left when they where on.





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[Happy1]

Could you put a domestic hot water cylinder type jacket around the block, they come in all sorts of sizes and quite cheap in B&Q? I am hoping to us my boat through the winter and was wondering if this would be OK.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Jim44]

Hopefully you are joking

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[Happy1]

No I am not joking, I don't have shore power and want to ensure the block is OK over winter, as the boat will be used most weekends. I just need something to prevent anything going wrong during the week. I think that this could be more effective than blankets as blankets could get wet, soggy and freeze.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[wakeup]

1850 posts and finally a good idea...

there's hope for me yet....../forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>.....can't be arsed.....

 

[Jim44]

It your engine/block. Personally I would not use a few old blankets/hot water blankets to protect my engine. What would the insurance company say if you tried to claim!!!

Where do you keep your boat that you have no Shore power?

I keep my 1850 Bayliner in my garage at home and plan to put heaters near the engine in case it drops below 5oC in my garage.

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[Happy1]

My boat is in a marina, but I have no use for shore power it is so small. I have survived in the arctic in conditions far, far colder than you would ever get here in specially designed sleeping bags, I just can't understand why there is not an engine bag. Hopefully the engine would not go longer than 6 days without being run, I do believe that would reduce the chance of the freeze building up, but with no protection one cold night could probably crack the block.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Jim44]

Another problem with a bag could be that if you come back late'ish on a Sunday with a hot engine you might not be able to put the 'bag' on until it has cooled, put it on to soon and it could be a fire risk.

If you have shore power, buy the cable, a plug, a bit of wire and two small green house heaters all for less than £100, and the engines are covered however cold it gets.

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[Happy1]

I think the £160 fee for the MDL lead has put me off, they also have other fees for the provision of the power that makes it far too expensive an option ( I could be eating words if the block freezes though)

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[TonyBrooks]

I have not read all the posts, but theer loks like a lot of confusion here.

May I suggest that www.reading-college.ac.uk/marine is contacted, look under cooling in course notes. There you will find pictures and explanations of the various cooling methods.

The site, although obviously trying to do a bit of advertising, is ment as a souce of information - so feel free to use it.

Once we know exactly which type of system & exhaust you have we can give better advice.

Tony Brooks

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[BrendanS]

Don't think you understood the nature of the thread Tony. It's about heating engines over the winter when they are not in use, not cooling them while in use

<hr width=100% size=1>For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three

 

[tr7v8]

No I think some people are confused what cooling systems they have.
Raw water cooling runs seawater thru' the engine and would need antifreeze added to it via it's cooling intake, normally with the boatout of the water and dunking the leg in a dustbin of antifreeze and water and running till its completely circulated. Happy 1s engine is one of these. Mine has header tanks with coolant mix and circulates that through the engine, connected to the header tank is a heat exchanger where sea water and coolant flow together and the coolant passes heat to the sea water where it's then passed back to the sea.
Blankets wouldnt work as the engine heat sink and possibly the leg in the seawater would reduce the temp down to ambient anyway.

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500