blueglass
Well-Known Member
or even large packs charging through the mobos.
Ending the hostility - raggies v stinkies
- Thread starter tcm
- Start date
or even large packs charging through the mobos.
blueglass
Well-Known Member
mobos don't type messages on keyboards
Happily, hereabouts it is almost unheard of, from either mobos or raggies.
they can't talk either......
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Blueglass makes a good point: swarms of small sailing boats routinely impede the passage of motorboats, relying on technical power-gives-way principles…
…which often permit thoughtless, cavalier irresponsibility and gross presumptuous discourtesy by those under sail. At least some duty of care lies with the small-fry potential victims of collisions.
How would any sailing skipper respond, if numerous very small, very slow motorboats steered zig-zag courses in their yacht’s vicinity, and regarded the obligation to stand clear, as the yacht’s? Iniquitous!
I reckon the existing guidelines are roundly abused, even unwittingly, by small and large vessels alike. In a broad seaway, the rules usually make sense exactly as written…
…but in the confusion of a tidal entrance with doubtful depths and constant two-way traffic, it ought to be unambiguously, instinctively, invariably understood, that pedestrians mustn’t loiter in the busy road!
Likewise, the presence of any approaching or dallying vessel may prevent a sailing yacht’s tack at a critical moment: any delay, and she may run into shallows or into the windless lee of shore structures…
…infinitely easier if the upcoming vessel pays close attention and waits or steers to give room.
The problem with the forum, is that I don’t believe any of us are the thoughtless, daft, myopic types that cause the problems…
…they’re all out there, mindlessly generating antagonism!
C
Chrusty 1
Guest
Blueglass makes a good point: swarms of small sailing boats routinely impede the passage of motorboats, relying on technical power-gives-way principles…
…which often permit thoughtless, cavalier irresponsibility and gross presumptuous discourtesy by those under sail. At least some duty of care lies with the small-fry potential victims of collisions.
How would any sailing skipper respond, if numerous very small, very slow motorboats steered zig-zag courses in their yacht’s vicinity, and regarded the obligation to stand clear, as the yacht’s? Iniquitous!
I reckon the existing guidelines are roundly abused, even unwittingly, by small and large vessels alike. In a broad seaway, the rules usually make sense exactly as written…
…but in the confusion of a tidal entrance with doubtful depths and constant two-way traffic, it ought to be unambiguously, instinctively, invariably understood, that pedestrians mustn’t loiter in the busy road!
Likewise, the presence of any approaching or dallying vessel may prevent a sailing yacht’s tack at a critical moment: any delay, and she may run into shallows or into the windless lee of shore structures…
…infinitely easier if the upcoming vessel pays close attention and waits or steers to give room.
The problem with the forum, is that I don’t believe any of us are the thoughtless, daft, myopic types that cause the problems…
…they’re all out there, mindlessly generating antagonism!
I think you are now having a laugh, the "colregs" as they are mostly misnamed are just as they are written, it doesn't matter where you are, wether it be a busy harbour or out on open water, they are still fully applicable, the problems start when people start placing their own interpretations of the "colregs" into practice. It's a good job commercial shipping doesn't behave in the same way isn't it.
Just because a sailing dinghy be only 16 feet in length, and a mobo be 50 feet in length doesn't mean that either of them should not obey the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.
Seajet
...
Though a sail type until the day I die, I completely agree with the last 2 posts !
I used to crew a very fancy International 14 dinghy from Itchenor; the owner was red hot on local racing marks and tactics, but wouldn't have known a proper navigation mark if it strolled up and kicked him in the shins...
We were between East Head and HISC - parrallel to the Winner shoals - one day, going like a scalded cat and both blinded by spray, when I saw a familiar green buoy streak past on the wrong side; I just had time to say " err...! " before the daggerboard hit the rather solid rock-like compacted shingle.
I used to crew a very fancy International 14 dinghy from Itchenor; the owner was red hot on local racing marks and tactics, but wouldn't have known a proper navigation mark if it strolled up and kicked him in the shins...
We were between East Head and HISC - parrallel to the Winner shoals - one day, going like a scalded cat and both blinded by spray, when I saw a familiar green buoy streak past on the wrong side; I just had time to say " err...! " before the daggerboard hit the rather solid rock-like compacted shingle.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Indeed, very fortunate that commercial shipping doesn't idly apply the rules...but that's the point, surely...
...a dinghy has relative freedom of movement in constricted waters, which even a motorised fifty-footer does not. So...sail needn't impede motor's progress at such times; ideally, sail thinks well ahead and doesn't even steer close enough to cause consternation.
How contemptible is the dinghy-sailor who insists on adherence to the letter of the law, when the law wasn't written in that spirit?
It must be almost exclusively in busy areas that problems arise, where typically, situations develop quickly but predictably, from theoretical differences of opinion about right of way, into outraged endangerment, damage and senseless liberty-taking.
We all ought to think ahead and keep our distances. Not so hard.
C
Chrusty 1
Guest
Indeed, very fortunate that commercial shipping doesn't idly apply the rules...but that's the point, surely...
...a dinghy has relative freedom of movement in constricted waters, which even a motorised fifty-footer does not. So...sail needn't impede motor's progress at such times; ideally, sail thinks well ahead and doesn't even steer close enough to cause consternation.
How contemptible is the dinghy-sailor who insists on adherence to the letter of the law, when the law wasn't written in that spirit?
It must be almost exclusively in busy areas that problems arise, where typically, situations develop quickly but predictably, from theoretical differences of opinion about right of way, into outraged endangerment, damage and senseless liberty-taking.
We all ought to think ahead and keep our distances. Not so hard.
I can empathise with the spirit of your post, but not entirely with it's content. If we obey the "colregs" as they are written down, everybody then knows what to expect from each other, once we start placing our own interpretations on the "colregs" it all goes to $hit fairly rapidly.
Frankie-H
Well-Known Member
Very sadly our chosen sport is now so totally over subscribed that the days have gone, when we could have expected manners, consideration and good seamanship. Our waters are full and a small percentage of boat users are totally inconsiderate. This is called freedom. They can not be legislated against. You can not legislate against bad manners. You can not shame them. They are too ignorant to realise that they are doing anything wrong.
There are no answers. It is a symptom of our times. Even if the prats could read, they would laugh or, even worse, think that these well thought out musings did not apply to them.
Is it any surprise that more and more people are giving up or setting off for Patagonia.
I must be the last in a long line of ...........Knobheads.
There are no answers. It is a symptom of our times. Even if the prats could read, they would laugh or, even worse, think that these well thought out musings did not apply to them.
Is it any surprise that more and more people are giving up or setting off for Patagonia.
I must be the last in a long line of ...........Knobheads.
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Seajet
...
Dan,
I think what we're really getting at is courtesy and keeping to the spirit of rules, not the letter.
The moment people start pushing things and being a general nuisance while 'sticking to the law' and ignoring what effect they are causing - not caring to look behind - all is lost...
Corribee Boy
Well-Known Member
Re the 'colregs' - What happens when the fleet of oppies are relying on their status as sailing craft, while the MOBO has decided it's a restricted channel or fairway?
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C
Chrusty 1
Guest
They should both be obeying the "colregs", and if they do, then no problems should ensue. The one has no more status than the other.
Anyway, I aint going to get into a "colregs" debate, it could go on for years!
Seajet
...
I still suggest this is a matter of common sense and courtesy.
When we entered Chichester Harbour this last Sunday afternoon there was a chap on a hydrofoil Moth whizzing about at very high speed; he did't cause us the slightest alarm or to alter course, he was that much faster he knew we were just an obstacle to avoid...
So skill and experience was the cure, as is so often the case, and lack of either of these factors is what generally causes problems !
When we entered Chichester Harbour this last Sunday afternoon there was a chap on a hydrofoil Moth whizzing about at very high speed; he did't cause us the slightest alarm or to alter course, he was that much faster he knew we were just an obstacle to avoid...
So skill and experience was the cure, as is so often the case, and lack of either of these factors is what generally causes problems !
blueglass
Well-Known Member
absolutely.
relying totally on power giving way to sail is clearly not a great idea in a confined channel.
Speaking for myself I certainly happily accept this in open water and its not a problem, but when space to manouvre is at a premium its time to get sensible. If not for courtesy's sake then at least for self preservation.
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
Not a problem if the Mobo is displaying the correct signal which, surely, it would be
C
Chrusty 1
Guest
It is the duty of both vessels to keep clear of the other.
Lets just assume for a moment that you are navigating a narrow channel in your mobo, and a sailing dinghy is rightly or wrongly about to cross your bows, are you suggesting that you would happily T-bone said dinghy simply because you didn't feel like slowing down or coming to a stop?
I don't suppose you would really would you?
blueglass
Well-Known Member
It is the duty of both vessels to keep clear of the other.
Lets just assume for a moment that you are navigating a narrow channel in your mobo, and a sailing dinghy is rightly or wrongly about to cross your bows, are you suggesting that you would happily T-bone said dinghy simply because you didn't feel like slowing down or coming to a stop?
I don't suppose you would really would you?
Not sure why you think I was suggesting that at all. I wouldn't T bone anybody, happily or unhappily if I could possibly avoid it.
taking your scenario. Firstly I wouldn't need to slow down because I would already be moving very slowly in a confined channel. Coming to a stop if required is exactly what I would do if it would prevent a collision. All I am saying is that it would be nice if I didn't have to, because the guy in the sailing boat used a little common sense and courtesy as suggested by seajet
C
Chrusty 1
Guest
So are you saying that the sailing boat should give way to you because you are in a narrow channel? I am just trying to get a handle on what this common sense and courtesy thing means to you?
Corribee Boy
Well-Known Member
colreg 9?
C
Chrusty 1
Guest
Correct, Para "B"
That is what I was getting at, it's not a matter of common sense or courtesy, it's all there in the "colregs"blueglass
Well-Known Member
what I am saying is that with common sense and courtesy, assuming both participants can control their boats, nobody should should have to be giving way to anybody. What is so hard about that.
