Ending the hostility - raggies v stinkies

[Chrusty 1]

Echo that.

Those who always wave at other people who just happen to be similarly occupied, are like dogs in cars, suddenly excited when they spot other dogs. Imagine, if it was expected as a courtesy, to wave at all other road-users you encounter! It's no less daft, at sea...

I read somewhere, of "...the bargeman's slow, accustomed nod of acknowledgement..." as his vessel passes another, similar craft. Or some such description of restrained good manners. That ought to be enough for the thinking contingent of yachtsmen, too. No need for waving like nine-year-old girls on a sugar-high.

On the matter of sail and power, it's interesting that nobody of any creed excuses exponents of PWC. The point being, those machines were only, deliberately designed from the ground up, to satisfy the hooligan-instincts of unsubtle, aggressive types...

...and the difficulty here arises when skippers of 30, 40, 50 foot motoryachts are still, in their hearts, cutting loose on a jetski.

Interesting that we uncover so much we disagree upon, when I reckon we'd largely concur on the reasons behind the problems:

- insensitive use of power by large motoryachts, and by frustrated inadequate types in smaller mobos;

- sailing dinghies and small keelboats racing with selfish singlemindedness in constricted areas;

- idiotic choice of anchoring spots;

- PWCs.

That's about it. All pains in the collective ass, yet we tend to form sides when the issues are raised. Except about PWCs...

...is there any excuse for them? They're only manufactured so overgrown children can hurry about in noisy, scrappy circles...

...perhaps there ought to be large cages, more than a mile offshore, where PWC users can play waterborne Mad Max games. A sort of Jetski cage-fighting? Ideally with a 'Two go in - One comes out' arrangement, reducing overall numbers, over time...

Way to go Dancrane...........ripping good speech!

 

[DougH]

.....and a wallet......some chav in ...... power gin palace :

When folks think and talk using such language there is no hope.

 

[blueglass]

Interesting that we uncover so much we disagree upon, when I reckon we'd largely concur on the reasons behind the problems:

- insensitive use of power by large motoryachts, and by frustrated inadequate types in smaller mobos;

- sailing dinghies and small keelboats racing with selfish singlemindedness in constricted areas;

- idiotic choice of anchoring spots;

- PWCs.

)

I note you leave yachties out of your list who presumably are incapable of misdemeanor?
I agree with your list entirely but in the intersts of fair play I would, in your own format add;

insensitive use of sail in confined areas and frustrated inadequate types in small yachts

 

[Chrusty 1]

When folks think and talk using such language there is no hope.

More selective quoting.........No?

 

[blueglass]

More selective quoting.........No?

you have to admit the language is provocative and displays the very prejudice that fuels the great divide, however.

 

[Chrusty 1]

I note you leave yachties out of your list who presumably are incapable of misdemeanor?
I agree with your list entirely but in the intersts of fair play I would, in your own format add;

insensitive use of sail in confined areas and frustrated inadequate types in small yachts

Please explain insensitive use of sail? An explanation of "frustrated inadequate types in small yachts" wouldn't go amiss either. A sailboat is a sailboat, it uses sails to drive it, a lot of engines fitted in sailboats are not much more than manoeuvring aids. Sailboats need to tack sometimes, even in confined waters, everybody knows that, do you have difficulty in allowing for that? How do you know that the skipper of a small yacht is inadequate or frustrated?

Now, I have said on more than one occasion, that whichever camp you may be in, we all have our fair share of people that are perhaps inconsiderate and or inexperienced, but I find your post a tad antagonistic, and judgemental. Sometimes making allowances, is a good way of keeping ones blood pressure within comfortable limits, and having a nice day on the water.

 

[blueglass]

Please explain insensitive use of sail? An explanation of "frustrated inadequate types in small yachts" wouldn't go amiss either. A sailboat is a sailboat, it uses sails to drive it, a lot of engines fitted in sailboats are not much more than manoeuvring aids. Sailboats need to tack sometimes, even in confined waters, everybody knows that, do you have difficulty in allowing for that? How do you know that the skipper of a small yacht is inadequate or frustrated?

Now, I have said on more than one occasion, that whichever camp you may be in, we all have our fair share of people that are perhaps inconsiderate and or inexperienced, but I find your post a tad antagonistic, and judgemental. Sometimes making allowances, is a good way of keeping ones blood pressure within comfortable limits, and having a nice day on the water.

I think you miss my point. I was paraphrasing dancrane's post to highlight the prejudice therein.
for example and to be precise - I have no more idea of what "frustrated inadequate types in small yachts" are than what "frustrated inadequate types in small mobos" are. Perhaps read my post in context with dancranes?
the antagonism and judgements are dancranes, not mine

 

[Chrusty 1]

I think you miss my point. I was paraphrasing dancrane's post to highlight the prejudice therein.
for example and to be precise - I have no more idea of what "frustrated inadequate types in small yachts" are than what "frustrated inadequate types in small mobos" are. Perhaps read my post in context with dancranes?
the antagonism and judgements are dancranes, not mine

Aye but the point is that both camps seem to be of the opinion, that it's all the fault of the other It takes effort on both sides to allow for the errors in each others way of doing things, and I still think Dancrane's post was a good speech!

It seems to me that it's only in areas where there is a high concentration of mobos that these problems occur, I should be more specific and say that it's only in areas where there is a high concentration of high speed planing boats that these problems occur. There are very few of them around these parts, and I mean very few. So we don't have this us and them thing going on. Most of the mobos around here are displacement jobbies or ones that can lift their legs (please excuse the expression), to take the ground.

Peace doth reign and it's a wonderful thing!

 

[blueglass]

Aye but the point is that both camps seem to be of the opinion, that it's all the fault of the other It takes effort on both sides to allow for the errors in each others way of doing things, and I still think Dancrane's post was a good speech!

couldn't agree more, but dancranes "good speech"was a perfect example of just that. It was all the fault of the others and his own camp was left out of his list! Can't see how you agree with him and maintain your stance of imploring "both sides to allow for the the errors in each other's....."

 

[Seajet]

Interesting that I'm quoted out of context again, while the fact I actually made a pro-active effort - as far as I can make out the only person to have done so out of all the politically correct saintly types here - and invited motor boat owners for a sail is studiously ignored as it doesn't suit the knocking comment !

I'll carry on judging people as I find them ta very much, as individuals not tribes...

 

[Chrusty 1]

couldn't agree more, but dancranes "good speech"was a perfect example of just that. It was all the fault of the others and his own camp was left out of his list! Can't see how you agree with him and maintain your stance of imploring "both sides to allow for the the errors in each other's....."

He did yer know, go back and read the bit about small dinghies and keel boats..........

 

[blueglass]

It seems to me that it's only in areas where there is a high concentration of mobos that these problems occur, I should be more specific and say that it's only in areas where there is a high concentration of high speed planing boats that these problems occur. There are very few of them around these parts, and I mean very few. So we don't have this us and them thing going on. Most of the mobos around here are displacement jobbies or ones that can lift their legs (please excuse the expression), to take the ground.

Peace doth reign and it's a wonderful thing!

That is true enough. Out in the Ionian where I have been spending a lot of time afloat, mobos are outnumbered 100 to one by sailboats and no big issue here.
However.. high speed planing superyachts are disdained by both camps. We are talking her about small ships planing around at small boat speeds, and trust me you knopw nothing about wash until you have been bushwacked by one of these boys!

 

[blueglass]

He did yer know, go back and read the bit about small dinghies and keel boats..........

I don't think he is a dinghy sailor but may be wrong

 

[[2068]]

and invited motor boat owners for a sail is studiously ignored as it doesn't suit the knocking comment!

Tis a kind offer, but I mess around in Dinghies/Windsurfers, and also get to go on boats from a well known but not always highly regarded sail charter operation based in Puerto Solente - two years ago we came 37th in class after a spinnaker wrap in Cowes Week

 

[DougH]

More selective quoting.........No?

If you say so

 

[Seajet]

Tis a kind offer, but I mess around in Dinghies/Windsurfers, and also get to go on boats from a well known but not always highly regarded sail charter operation based in Puerto Solente - two years ago we came 37th in class after a spinnaker wrap in Cowes Week

When I did a sailing course & exam in 1992, we stopped at a marina with a certain big 'sailing school' outfit resident.

As we trudged wearily to the pub, one of our number who wasn't local read the company name on the boats ( which incidentally were left looking as if they'd been pushed from the back of a passing Hercules ) and read the name out loud.

I instantly responded " w*****s "

He admonished me, " Andy you shouldn't be so judgemental "

To which our very polite and mild mannered instructor replied " No, he's right, they are w*****s ! "

I'm afraid people who have been with that lot aren't allowed aboard my boat for fear they might contaminate something...

 

[Greenheart]

Clarification, I hope: take a breath and dive in...

I note you leave yachties out of your list who presumably are incapable of misdemeanor?
I agree with your list entirely but in the intersts of fair play I would, in your own format add;

insensitive use of sail in confined areas and frustrated inadequate types in small yachts

Heavens above. I guess this is what I meant when I observed that despite widespread agreement on the problems, everyone is ready to lob a controversy-grenade, then duck back into whichever trench they perceive themselves as belonging in.

To clarify, I’m a dinghy sailor with dreams of bigger stuff...or I'll be a dinghy sailor again when the bank helps out...

...but I’m the first to point out how momentously inconsiderate dinghy-racing fleets can be in their occupation of narrow, shallow waters, leaving larger vessels under power, be they motor or sailing yachts, unreasonably restricted in their course and pace.

The worst, most contemptible dinghy-sailors’ assumption, is that the energetic challenges they face from adverse tide and wind, somehow diminish their obligations to consider the convenience of other vessels. That routinely gets completely out of hand during racing.

The flip-side of that, just as real, is misbehaviour by what I called ‘frustrated, inadequate types in small motorboats’ – whose impatient acceleration up to and far above speed limits, makes for alarming, unpredictable situations, exactly when restraint ought to be shown.

Alright – my accusation of ‘inadequate’ comes from a well-fed, enduring, ineradicable suspicion that lots of large-speedboat owners aren’t much advanced in terms of drive and reasoning, from the worst of PWC riders.

I’m pretty sure the culprits are exactly like the type of youthful car-owners who cut the ends off their exhausts, just to announce their arrival wherever they go; given the chance, they invariably plough a noisy, disruptive furrow between more leisurely boatowners...

…older males may recollect their fruitless, pitiable urge to impress, and the unhappiness of being such a noisome sack of hormones...but drivers (and motorboat owners) born before the mid-‘eighties, deserve only scorn and contempt for such transparent immaturity.

So...

...let's be clear...there are faults on both sides. If I tend to overlook anti-social deeds by sailing yachts, it's because they're relatively rare. Though goonish show-off skippers carrying spinnakers through moorings certainly warrant a slow shake of the head.

I wonder how real, 50:50 motorsailer-owners come out of this? Beloved by all, or the butt of everyone's objections?

PS., thanks Chrusty, I aim to please! But I'm not a very good aim...

 

[Seajet]

' a noisome sack of hormones'...I'll have to remember that one !

How about speeding through moorings in a Mcgregor ( saw one at the weekend, my eyes, my eyes hurt nurse ! ) with the sails up and on the plane; that should offend just about everyone from here to Mars !

 

[[2068]]

I'm afraid people who have been with that lot aren't allowed aboard my boat for fear they might contaminate something...

Oh Dear, scrub that one then. I was the "movable ballast" on a staff boat, so possibly not your typical corporate charterer.

But, I think times have changed since the early '90s. Last season I was moored up between various charter boats just before Cowes Week. They all seemed to be filled with very earnest bespectacled trainee accountants, none of which seemed to know the definition of "to party".

 

[Madhatter]

Heavens above. I guess this is what I meant when I observed that despite widespread agreement on the problems, everyone is ready to lob a controversy-grenade, then duck back into whichever trench they perceive themselves as belonging in.

To clarify, I’m a dinghy sailor with dreams of bigger stuff...or I'll be a dinghy sailor again when the bank helps out...

...but I’m the first to point out how momentously inconsiderate dinghy-racing fleets can be in their occupation of narrow, shallow waters, leaving larger vessels under power, be they motor or sailing yachts, unreasonably restricted in their course and pace.

The worst, most contemptible dinghy-sailors’ assumption, is that the energetic challenges they face from adverse tide and wind, somehow diminish their obligations to consider the convenience of other vessels. That routinely gets completely out of hand during racing.

The flip-side of that, just as real, is misbehaviour by what I called ‘frustrated, inadequate types in small motorboats’ – whose impatient acceleration up to and far above speed limits, makes for alarming, unpredictable situations, exactly when restraint ought to be shown.

Alright – my accusation of ‘inadequate’ comes from a well-fed, enduring, ineradicable suspicion that lots of large-speedboat owners aren’t much advanced in terms of drive and reasoning, from the worst of PWC riders.

I’m pretty sure the culprits are exactly like the type of youthful car-owners who cut the ends off their exhausts, just to announce their arrival wherever they go; given the chance, they invariably plough a noisy, disruptive furrow between more leisurely boatowners...

…older males may recollect their fruitless, pitiable urge to impress, and the unhappiness of being such a noisome sack of hormones...but drivers (and motorboat owners) born before the mid-‘eighties, deserve only scorn and contempt for such transparent immaturity.

So...

...let's be clear...there are faults on both sides. If I tend to overlook anti-social deeds by sailing yachts, it's because they're relatively rare. Though goonish show-off skippers carrying spinnakers through moorings certainly warrant a slow shake of the head.

I wonder how real, 50:50 motorsailer-owners come out of this? Beloved by all, or the butt of everyone's objections?

PS., thanks Chrusty, I aim to please! But I'm not a very good aim...

Go for it Dan ,you tell them