Electric windlass installation

[Kelpie]

After years of procrastination I'm finally going to upgrade from my Lofrans Royale to a Tigres. Physically it's close to a straight swap.

I've got a spare 110Ah battery which I install as close as possible to the windlass. I plan to use a wireless remote as the primary control, with a backup manual switch within reach of the forehatch. I'll put the breaker there too and use that as the isolator.



Questions:

- what size of breaker? Unfortunately I don't actually know the motor wattage because I got the windlass secondhand.



- is a thermal breaker suitable? e.g. 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine



- for the remote, I quite like the look of this: Amazon.co.uk



- charging the battery... it's about 8m from the rest of the bank. If I just added it in parallel, would I need massive cables to reduce voltage drop and ensure that it actually charges? Which defeats the point of the extra battery. I know that a DC-DC charger is the best answer but they seem amazingly expensive. As an interim measure, I could just use a spare 240v charger I have, and top up the battery every time the inverter is on. How many Ah will the windlass actually use?? Surely not very many?



- another possible bodge, I'm wondering about whether to actually bother wiring in the 'power down' function. I've always dropped the anchor using the clutch and not expecting to change that. It would remove a few components and eliminate the risk of pressing the wrong button. Happy to be persuaded that 'power down' is a good thing to have and it does seem a bit daft not to wire everything up properly.

 

[Plum]

After years of procrastination I'm finally going to upgrade from my Lofrans Royale to a Tigres. Physically it's close to a straight swap.

I've got a spare 110Ah battery which I install as close as possible to the windlass. I plan to use a wireless remote as the primary control, with a backup manual switch within reach of the forehatch. I'll put the breaker there too and use that as the isolator.



Questions:

- what size of breaker? Unfortunately I don't actually know the motor wattage because I got the windlass secondhand.



- is a thermal breaker suitable? e.g. 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine



- for the remote, I quite like the look of this: Amazon.co.uk



- charging the battery... it's about 8m from the rest of the bank. If I just added it in parallel, would I need massive cables to reduce voltage drop and ensure that it actually charges? Which defeats the point of the extra battery. I know that a DC-DC charger is the best answer but they seem amazingly expensive. As an interim measure, I could just use a spare 240v charger I have, and top up the battery every time the inverter is on. How many Ah will the windlass actually use?? Surely not very many?



- another possible bodge, I'm wondering about whether to actually bother wiring in the 'power down' function. I've always dropped the anchor using the clutch and not expecting to change that. It would remove a few components and eliminate the risk of pressing the wrong button. Happy to be persuaded that 'power down' is a good thing to have and it does seem a bit daft not to wire everything up properly.

I like having the option of laying and retrieving the anchor from the cockpit without going to the foredeck so I definitely would have the power-down function.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[rogerthebodger]

The power of the Tigres is 1200 watts so the current draw will be something lie 100 Amps depends on th actual load

 

[Tranona]

The simplest way is to keep all the wiring, battery and controls together at the front of the boat if you have the space. A 110Ah will be fine - that is what I have for both the windlass and the bow thruster. As for charging, when I bought my GH it was charged by a solar panel but I have removed that and now use a B2B from the start battery which only needs 16mm cables. Bought it used on here for £120 but they retail around £200. However, until I wired all that in I charged it from shorepower with a basic 8A car smart charger. Charging depends really on how much you use it and you may well find that in your situation solar will keep it fully charged , or you could use your 240v charger through the inverter.

Really don't see the point of having the breaker as an isolator, nor having it near the cockpit. Close to the battery is the best place. Routine when leaving and using the windlass is to go forward and turn the isolator on and off when you have finished. No harm in leaving it on anyway. Agree with wireless remote, but wired control at the bow as a back up. I have foot switches which I hate but on previous boats had the normal hand control on a curly wire. However never used them, only the remote. The cheapy types are OK and that is what I had first, but there is usually a delay which you have to get used to. On the last 2 boats I have a Sidepower wireless which does both bow thruster and windlass. Expensive but excellent and I have it on a lanyard around my neck. Really important for me to have good control from anywhere on the boat as I sail alone.

Powering down is far better than freefall in my opinion. gives you more control.

Photo of my electrical installation in the locker that holds the thruster. Bow battery is the other side of the forward bulkhead and windlass above left. Isolator on the berth front to the left. cables from the B2B not run when this photo was taken. The bunch of cable at the bottom is the wiring for the cockpit joystick control for the bow thruster which I have not bothered with because it is a pain to get it back to the cockpit and nowhere really to mount it where it can be used easily.

Hope this helps.

 

[noelex]

Firstly, as far as the breaker is concerned, it is important to find and purchase the correct value. A thermal breaker is fine (it does not have to be the more expensive magnetic/thermal breaker), but personally I would go with a recognised brand such as Blue Seas. Some of the Chinese copies trip at very inappropriate values.

Most circuit protection on boats is purely to protect the wiring. The only job it has to do is to trip in the event of short circuit to kill the power before the wire insulation melts. The exact trip characteristics are not overly important. The winch circuit breaker is one of the exceptions. As well as the above function, the winch circuit breaker protects the windlass motor from overheating. Most windlass motors are not continuously rated, at least not at anything like their full load. The windlass breaker is designed to trip before the windlass motor overheats even if a fault condition does not exist. Thus its characteristics have to be reasonably accurate. If it trips too early you will have nuisance trips and if it trips too late the windlass motor will be damaged.

I am sure someone will post the correct Lofrans recommended circuit breaker for that sized windlass and I would make sure the circuit breaker is the correct value and is a quality unit that will actually do what is says on the label. Even better is to actually buy the circuit breaker from Lofrans if it is not overly expensive. They will not make the actual breaker themselves, but will have at least tested that its trip characteristics do not allow the windlass to overheat.

 

[[167227]]

After years of procrastination I'm finally going to upgrade from my Lofrans Royale to a Tigres. Physically it's close to a straight swap.

I've got a spare 110Ah battery which I install as close as possible to the windlass. I plan to use a wireless remote as the primary control, with a backup manual switch within reach of the forehatch. I'll put the breaker there too and use that as the isolator.



Questions:

- what size of breaker? Unfortunately I don't actually know the motor wattage because I got the windlass secondhand.



- is a thermal breaker suitable? e.g. 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine



- for the remote, I quite like the look of this: Amazon.co.uk



- charging the battery... it's about 8m from the rest of the bank. If I just added it in parallel, would I need massive cables to reduce voltage drop and ensure that it actually charges? Which defeats the point of the extra battery. I know that a DC-DC charger is the best answer but they seem amazingly expensive. As an interim measure, I could just use a spare 240v charger I have, and top up the battery every time the inverter is on. How many Ah will the windlass actually use?? Surely not very many?



- another possible bodge, I'm wondering about whether to actually bother wiring in the 'power down' function. I've always dropped the anchor using the clutch and not expecting to change that. It would remove a few components and eliminate the risk of pressing the wrong button. Happy to be persuaded that 'power down' is a good thing to have and it does seem a bit daft not to wire everything up properly.

Please dont fit a cheap breaker They are known to short and/or overheat and also give a lot of voltage drop.

I have a 100 amp breaker for the 1200 watt windlass on Zora from BLue sea, super expensive but im really quite frightened of fire.

You'd be grand running the 110ah off your inverter and smaller batt charger but defo think about getting the Orion like mine. I love the Orion, i have 3 on the boat.

Our service batt for the windlass is only 60ah and we use it without the engine, to pull the dinghy up etc in the evening.

 

[geem]

The older Tigres was 1500w not 1200w of the later ones

 

[noelex]

- charging the battery... it's about 8m from the rest of the bank. If I just added it in parallel, would I need massive cables to reduce voltage drop and ensure that it actually charges? Which defeats the point of the extra battery. I know that a DC-DC charger is the best answer but they seem amazingly expensive. As an interim measure, I could just use a spare 240v charger I have, and top up the battery every time the inverter is on. How many Ah will the windlass actually use?? Surely not very many?

I have never heard of someone using a mains charger via the inverter to keep the windlass battery charged, but I cannot see why it would not work. It will start a new bulk cycle every time the inverter is turned on, which may overcharge the battery if you are not using the windlass motor much and so the battery lifespan may be less, but I doubt this will have much practical effect, especially as a short term measure.

The windlass will not consume much energy, but the windlass current is a high demand for a relatively small battery. Ideally the charge current for the windlass battery helps supply some of the current that the windlass is using. So if the windlass is using 60A, if you can supply 30A of charge current, the draw from the battery is only 30A. This helps keep the windlass battery voltage reasonable. Windlasses don’t like a very low battery voltage. So even though you do not need to replace much energy, there is some benefit in having a relatively high charge source for the windlass battery. Keep this in mind, especially for the long term solution.

 

[noelex]

- for the remote, I quite like the look of this: Amazon.co.uk

These types of remote controls are well worth having. I think you will find you use this most of the time. For this reason I would definitely wire it so it can used to power down the windlass, but I would not bother with a seperate power down foot switch. In an emergency, if the remote fails, you can always just release the windlass clutch.

The cheap remotes do have some drawbacks. They take a weird battery type so order some spares from Amazon when you buy a unit. The other drawback is even a very brief push of the button tends to power the windlass for a longer time than is sometimes needed. This can be a nuisance when "parking" the anchor. There is not an easy fix for this, but it not a big deal on most installations. Most users have reported good reliability despite the cheap build quality and lack of waterproofing. Unfortunately, that was not my experience, perhaps because my windlass is large (so a large solenoid with high switching loads is needed) or perhaps because I usually anchor 300+ days a year (so the units get a lot if use in a short time), or maybe I was just unlucky.

To fix these issues I purchased a wireless industrial crane remote that has been excellent, but is overkill for most users.

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks all for the ideas. My phone has been struggling to access the forum so I've not been able to respond until now.

If I can securely mount the battery in the place I want, the cable run to the windlass will be absolutely minimal- perhaps half a metre. Shouldn't see too much voltage drop over that run.
It seems a shame to extend that so I think I'll mount the breaker/isolator there, and just put up with the slight inconvenience of not being able to reset it by reaching in through the forehatch. I can always send the cabin boy down to do it.

On my Heath-Robinson charging idea, bear in mind I have 1200w of solar. I could go down this route as an interim measure.

An 18A Victron DC-DC charger is under £150 which is almost bearable. SWMBO is flying home soon so I could get her to pick one up (along with the remote).

At the moment the biggest task looks like mounting the battery. I want to put it inside the chain locker, quite high up, but that will entail a lot of grinding and glass work to build something that can carry that weight. The alternative is to sacrifice some locker space under the vee berth, which will also make the cable run considerably longer.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I've fitted loads of these budget remotes, including to my own boats, never had an issue. Only thing, they run on for a split second when you let the button go.

12V SUV ATV Recovery Wireless Winch Remote Control 2 Handset Switch Car Truck | eBay

 

[Plum]

I purchased a wireless industrial crane remote that has been excellent, but is overkill for most users.

Is this the type? Electric Hoist Winch Wireless Remote Control Transmitter & Receiver Industrial | eBay

www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Tranona]

If I can securely mount the battery in the place I want, the cable run to the windlass will be absolutely minimal- perhaps half a metre. Shouldn't see too much voltage drop over that run.
It seems a shame to extend that so I think I'll mount the breaker/isolator there, and just put up with the slight inconvenience of not being able to reset it by reaching in through the forehatch. I can always send the cabin boy down to do it.

Not sure why you are worried about access to the breaker - why should you need to reset it on a regular/frequent basis? In the 20 odd years I have had electric windlasses I have only had to reset once although my last boat had just a fuse that did blow but only when the motor failed. Replaced with a resetable breaker. As you can see mine is wired with a normal isolator (as was the Bavaria) and a breaker. Just turn off the isolator when you have finished using the windlass

 

[noelex]

Is this the type? Electric Hoist Winch Wireless Remote Control Transmitter & Receiver Industrial | eBay

www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

This looks like the same unit as mine:

Wireless Industrial Remote Control Transmitter & Receiver Kit For Hoist Crane | eBay

Although it only came with one handset and was cheaper.

The link you posted may be better, as it less expensive and the multitude of buttons are not needed. It looks like it is made by same company. When buying, check that the voltage of the receiver unit is suitable, as there are various options from 12v DC to 240v AC.

 

[dansaskip]

Just turn off the isolator when you have finished using the windlass

That is very good advice. Although a bit embarrassed to admit this recently I forgot to do just this. On a tack somehow a sheet caught my cockpit mounted switch and deployed the anchor. Whoops!
On another point I like foot switches in the bow- for one thing they stay where they are and don't get lost! and don't run out of battery power at a crucial time.
Although I do have a switch in the cockpit I almost always use the bow mounted switches - I like to see the lie of the chain, how much chain is out and if the anchor comes up clean.

 

[geem]

On another point I like foot switches in the bow- for one thing they stay where they are and don't get lost! and don't run out of battery power at a crucial time.
Although I do have a switch in the cockpit I almost always use the bow mounted switches - I like to see the lie of the chain, how much chain is out and if the anchor comes up clean.
[/QUOTE]
Ditto.
We use foot switches. We also have switches in the cockpit. We used to have a wireless remote but found we didn't use it. So much easier for us having two free hands when working the windlass. My wife often does the windlass. One hand to hold on and one hand to point where the anchor is.
I know some people find bow switches don't work for them but ours are perfectly positioned on the bow for efficiency. We wouldn't be without them

 

[Tranona]

On another point I like foot switches in the bow- for one thing they stay where they are and don't get lost! and don't run out of battery power at a crucial time.
Although I do have a switch in the cockpit I almost always use the bow mounted switches - I like to see the lie of the chain, how much chain is out and if the anchor comes up clean.

Ditto.
We use foot switches. We also have switches in the cockpit. We used to have a wireless remote but found we didn't use it. So much easier for us having two free hands when working the windlass. My wife often does the windlass. One hand to hold on and one hand to point where the anchor is.
I know some people find bow switches don't work for them but ours are perfectly positioned on the bow for efficiency. We wouldn't be without them
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps its a question of what you get used to. On my first Bavaria we had just the curly wire hand held but downside was it got caught in the chain and destroyed itself, so switched to another handheld coming through the forehatch. Not ideal but did keep the wire behind you and away from the chain. then went wireless. would not be without it on my own. Wear it on a lanyard and enables me to watch the chain coming up which I can't do with the foot switches as they are too far back owing o the location of the bow sprit and sampson post.

so really no one solution, only the one that works for you and the layout of your boat.

 

[Neeves]

We use foot switches but can use either 'switch' and lean over the bow, holding forestay, and watch chain and/or anchor.

We also have a toggle switch at the helm which I use when single handing or when Jo is down below doing something critical, like conjuring dinner.

We don't have a remote, seems unnecessary, for us, its another (even if minor) expense and simply another thing to go wrong. We don't have a switch on a curly cable - unnecessary.

We would always want a switch at the helm. If you have the choice have the foot switches sufficiently close to the bow that you can look over the bow and operate the switches (or invest in a remote).

Foot or toggle switch cables are 'skinny'.

Jonathan

 

[Kelpie]

Dredging this topic back up again.
I've now installed the windlass, took a while because I had to make a new plinth etc. Working well but still manual

Will be using 50mm² cables which are rated to 345A. Will need a fuse and/or breaker...
I could fit an ANL fuse, I was thinking 160A? Assuming the motor will draw around 100A in normal operation.
But I will want an isolator anyway, for safety. So maybe easiest to use a combined breaker/isolator.
I can get a Blue Sea thermal breaker here at a reasonable price, any reason not to use that?
Breaker, 285 Series Thermal Surfce Mount 150A - Budget Marine

I looked up the Lofrans breaker and it's about £250... in the UK... and probably impossible to buy here...

 

[rogerthebodger]

On my Tigress I use a standard DIN rail mounted breaker / isolator.

DC Circuit Breaker 100A |12-100V Dc | 800-1000w | Solar Circuit Breaker

I has a bus bar feeding my windlass and bow thruster (600 Amp) so I had an 800 Amp fuse for the bow thruster with a 100 amp CB betwee the bus bar and the fees to my windlass

The CD you posited looks OK and suitable for the job