Eastbourne lifeboat tried to assist French yacht for 9 hours

[penberth3]

If that were the case we'd properly fund mental health services rather than relying on a charity to fish people out of rivers. The reality is more likely you can't determine why a person is drowning so it's better to fish them all out just in case since in that case it actually is clear they are drowning usually.

I'm suggesting, in response to JuanTwoThree, a lifeboat crew has no right to use force to rescue someone who has decided to kill themselves..

 

[Chae_73]

If someone has made a decision to kill themselves, I don't think there is any "duty" to stop them. Using force would be assault.

Ok, hope you will be satisfied with that response when someone doesn't stop your son / daughter / spouse killing themselves.

 

[lustyd]

I was responding to the post you quoted rather than your post. I agree entirely with you

 

[penberth3]

Ok, hope you will be satisfied with that response when someone doesn't stop your son / daughter / spouse killing themselves.

That's nothing to do with it - I'm talking about the legal position.

 

[Chae_73]

That's nothing to do with it - I'm talking about the legal position.

Really?

The reality is that first responders have a duty to preserve life, regardless of the reasons as to why the life is at risk.

 

[Pye_End]

Many people who attempt suicide are very, very grateful that they were stopped, when looking back when their situation improves. If you come face to face with the situation it must be hard to walk away and live with this decision afterwards.

Stopping suicide with force happens all the time by mental health workers. An often discussed, deeply grey area.

 

[Sandy]

I wonder if the French nationals onboard were worried about being charged for a tow.

 

[penberth3]

Really?

The reality is that first responders have a duty to preserve life, regardless of the reasons as to why the life is at risk.

You're not getting it are you. This was about a comment claiming lifeboat crews would "forcibly rescue" someone who wanted to kill themselves.

 

[Chae_73]

Although I'm not a first responder, I work in an industry where this happens a lot, and I read the reports about who did what and the outcome.

The idea that a first responder could arrive on the scene, and make some kind of assessment that the individual had made a rational decision to end their life, and therefore not intervene, is incredibly misguided.

 

[Gixer]

I wouldn’t be surprised if once you contact the CG they are legally obliged to send out the RNLI. I‘m just picturing the court case, ‘said persons contacted the CG but said they were ok but subsequently drowned.‘ The operator was told not to bother the RNLI. I wonder who would get sued??
I remember contacting the out of hours doctor about my daughter, even though her symptoms weren’t serious because I answered a question with an answer he didn’t like an ambulance turned up. Also I remember calling the gas board about about a sensor beeping and I wanted to check that this was a low battery warning, even though the person on the phone confirmed that it was they had to send out an emergency engineer simply because I called them.

 

[penberth3]

Many people who attempt suicide are very, very grateful that they were stopped, when looking back when their situation improves. If you come face to face with the situation it must be hard to walk away and live with this decision afterwards.

Stopping suicide with force happens all the time by mental health workers. An often discussed, deeply grey area.

Absolutely, but authorised mental health workers are one of a few groups who can detain, using force if necessary. Lifeboat crews aren't.

 

[Chae_73]

You're not getting it are you. This was about a comment claiming lifeboat crews would "forcibly rescue" someone who wanted to kill themselves.

Maybe I'm not getting it. Maybe you know better.

 

[Pye_End]

Absolutely, but authorised mental health workers are one of a few groups who can detain, using force if necessary. Lifeboat crews aren't.

What makes you think that?

 

[Juan Twothree]

I wouldn’t be surprised if once you contact the CG they are legally obliged to send out the RNLI.

No, that's most definitely not the case. The CG make a judgement as to what, if any, SAR assets to task.

Very often, if a vessel reports a problem but says they don't need any assistance, the CG will ask the vessel to call them every 30 minutes or whatever to check on their progress, and to keep them updated.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Ok, hope you will be satisfied with that response when someone doesn't stop your son / daughter / spouse killing themselves.

Should they be dragged off the plane to Zürich if they decide to go the Dignitas route?

 

[penberth3]

What makes you think that?

The Mental Health Act.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Many people who attempt suicide are very, very grateful that they were stopped, when looking back when their situation improves. If you come face to face with the situation it must be hard to walk away and live with this decision afterwards.

I've had people who I've rescued in these circumstances come along months later to express their gratitude that they were saved. Very often the wish to die is only transient.

But on the other hand, I've had someone who we've rescued subsequently take their life by a different means.

You win some, you lose some.

 

[Chae_73]

Should they be dragged off the plane to Zürich if they decide to go the Dignitas route?

There are no first responders in that example so the situation does not arise.

I'm not wishing to get involved in a moral debate about people's right to take their own life.

 

[NorthRising]

There's always two sides to a story. Perhaps he didn't feel he needed help as he was able to get back on his own? Perhaps the 100m warp was to try to help the motion in the strong winds and waves?

I've told this before but around 15 years ago I was anchored for lunch at the mouth of the crouch rafted against my wife's cousin's boat that sported a long bowsprit. Anyway at the end of the lunch when we cast off I stupidly caught the shrouds in the bowsprit at a coouple of knots and the mast on our 24 foot cruiser racer came straight down. Not to worry, I was with my Son and we pulled everything back onto the coach roof, tied everything neatly and when sure nothing was dragging started the engine and headed back to our mooring a couple of miles away on the Roach. We had an emergency aeriel and as a matter of courtesy, called the coastguard, making clear we didn't need any help but that if they got any calls from other yachts about a dismasted yacht, not to worry. Anyway 5 minutes later and the D class lifeboat from Burnham turned up. Very friendly and even though we told them we were fine they said they had to shadow us back to our mooring. Anyway a couple of days later in the Burnham Chronicle there was a story about how the Burnham lifeboat had saved the lives of 2 souls and rescued us and towed us back in. Ever since then i've taken some of the stories with a pinch of salt.

Interesting, going back I think to 2014 I had to issue a written warning to a press officer of a RNLI Station, which to spare the current crew any negative impact I will not name here. He put out a press release informing any waiting journalist that the boat assisted 2 yachts that had run aground. Actually no boats had run aground. I had assisted a yacht which had had an engine coolant failure and shut down her engine, by taking her on tow. Tide was too much to get her into marina, but I was able to keep the tow out of danger, and could have got her to safe anchorage until tide turned. Lifeboat, skippered by said press officer, was launched (unclear who called the incident in to Coastguard but it happened almost adjacent to the Lifeboat station) and ordered me by hand signal (would not respond to radio traffic) to surrender the tow (which I was more than happy to do); she was towed to Marina to be met by shorebased Coastguard team. We never had less than 7 metres under the keels.

Said press release was changed following my intervention, he was really rather rude in the exchange of emails. I believe the setup in question has seen some personnel changes since then. I think some folks egos get in the way. But it would definitely make me think twice about putting in a Pan Pan call, and I'm afraid on occasion I have not donated as generously as I did before - I feel it is unfortunate I feel like that, but we are shaped by life experience. I had thought previously of becoming a volunteer, but that incident changed my mind.

 

[Juan Twothree]

As a matter of interest, how often do you decline?

It's quite rare, but it does happen. And when it does, it's not usually because no assistance is required, but because a different type of boat would be more suitable. For instance due to weather or tidal conditions, or the size, location and ultimate destination of the casualty.