Eastbourne lifeboat tried to assist French yacht for 9 hours

[FlyingGoose]

'I

i would say that there is a world of difference between an aged lady with severe pain and no hope of recovery and that of a middle aged physically healthy male with half a life time ahead but with some mental issues which ( have obviously ) can be helped . just to emphasise that cases can and are very different and no hard or fast doctrine can possibly cover them all .

No we each carry a diffrent burden from the teenager to the older person , each has a reason , but if we can get there and help be it humanly or talking and stoping a tragedy then I’m all for it.
One must be a society that respects those when they feel it is their time and have lived a full life and feel it is the time to go, but that is a whole different discussion,
Back to the loose thread , if the lifeboat crew were to pull a drowning person who walked into the sea to die , It is their duty , it is as I said I cry for help, if those that wanted to die generally they will find a way more private and less to be disturbed , those that are more let’s say obvious , in my opinion is a cry for help , and with proper care afterwards can be given a new path.

 

[cherod]

'I
No we each carry a diffrent burden from the teenager to the older person , each has a reason , but if we can get there and help be it humanly or talking and stoping a tragedy then I’m all for it.
One must be a society that respects those when they feel it is their time and have lived a full life and feel it is the time to go, but that is a whole different discussion,
Back to the loose thread , if the lifeboat crew were to pull a drowning person who walked into the sea to die , It is their duty , it is as I said I cry for help, if those that wanted to die generally they will find a way more private and less to be disturbed , those that are more let’s say obvious , in my opinion is a cry for help , and with proper care afterwards can be given a new path.

yes ,, so why say " no " ?

 

[Capt Popeye]

i would say that there is a world of difference between an aged lady with severe pain and no hope of recovery and that of a middle aged physically healthy male with half a life time ahead but with some mental issues which ( have obviously ) can be helped . just to emphasise that cases can and are very different and no hard or fast doctrine can possibly cover them all .

Humm yes, would say though that assiting someone, like a terminally ill person who has been put aside by the NHS to await their death by natural illness and causes, including starvation, probably in a Care / Nursing Home s very different to someone who has a mental thought imbalance, caused by various things, who has an urge to commite suicide, but for that urge, they are quite well and certainly not known to be dying

Would suggest that the former is beyond any medical help to sustain life the later is certainly not beyond help to regain their life.

 

[FlyingGoose]

yes ,, so why say " no " ?

Popeye says it better than me.

 

[cherod]

yes of course ,, my point is that no hard fast doctrine can cover all cases .

 

[FlyingGoose]

No they cannot not and I can only see it from my perspective and hear those that have been talked down from suicide ,
I have no knowledge of those that suffer and want to go , there is a different perspective, I watched my mum go that way with cancer.
Depression and anxiety are diffrent and can cause let’s say for those of a younger healthier prospect still to want to die.
It is an illness that can be managed if not cured, the brain and the chemicals that control our body systems are unique and we still do not truly understand it

 

[dslittle]

Jumble Duck or anyone contemplating suicide by drowning in the sea.
Please don't do it.
It is likely that your rotted stinking corpse will be washed up on a beach and devistate a member of the public, be it child or adult,or be retrieved by a Lifeboat Crew
.After 20 odd years it is only now that I can look at a defrosting turkey fillet from Iceland and not be feel revulsion.
This after we picked up the headless, stinking, putrid corpse with 'flesh' dripping off it, of a suicide that had driven off a cliff some weeks ago further down the coast.
Every living thing in the sea had taken a bite out of it including birds.
After we got rid of the bloated mess I remember seeing something on the Lifeboat deck and picking it up to examine,it was a finger or toe bone.
A passing yacht stood by this corpse to mark it while we got to the position.They discovered it by the stench.
If you must do it,suicide that is,Carbon Monoxide is your friend.
Non Cheers.

edited to add'suicide that is'

Having seen far more bodies than anyone should, I can say that the aftermath of any death is horrendous.
‘Natural’ deaths and murders are far easier to deal with than suicides. Not only the initial investigation but the subsequent dealings with the surviving family/friends/discoverers. NO ONE should have to ‘suffer’ the discovery of a suicide, especially a body recovered from the water. Anyone who believes that another has a ‘right’ to take their own live should be made to attend a body that has been in the water for any length of time, mangled under an underground train, hit a windscreen at great speed or left their brains over a wall. Perhaps just a smelling experience.
There have been a number of very personal stories on this thread, which have been brave and have my greatest respect. I do not know the personal experience of some others commenting on this thread BUT, if you have not had personal experiences, perhaps it would be nice if you didn’t comment on something that you can’t possibly empathise with.
Sometimes, it’s easy to sanction ‘rights’ from your armchair.
Rant over, this has nothing to do with the original post that relates to volunteers trying to save lives at sea, sometimes at great personal risk...

 

[caiman]

I know of a Lifeboat Station nearby that will no longer respond to 'jumpers'(their term not mine)and act as a' bits of body' recovery service, due to the effect on the Crew.

On a happier note,I am on first name terms with a person who was' talked down' by a Lifeboat Crew(not our Station) some time ago.This person recovered, went on to join the Crew, and themselves have genuinly saved life at sea on a Lifeboat.
I also remember a woman who jumped from a local bridge in a suicide' attempt'.She was pulled from the water by the ILB Crew.She came to the Station at a later date to thank the Crew.
We don't win them all though.

There have been a couple of comments regarding towing speeds through this discussion.
Whilst serving as ALB Mechanic,comms with the Coasties and with the casualty are part of my duties.I for sure initially ask the casualty what speed they are happy to be towed at.I also check with the casualty during the tow that everything is ok with them, if they are happy with the towing speed ,and to give us a shout if they are concerned about anything,which on occasion they have.
Communication is a two way street.If a casualty isn't happy with the speed,or indeed,if some other issue arises whilst under tow-tell us,don't just sit there and suffer.
Cheers

 

[JumbleDuck]

Some months later after numerous stays in hospital to make her (feel) better, she decided the only control over her own fate was to stop eating. It took 17 days for her emancipated body to finally consume enough of her organs for her suffering to cease. What a horrible way to end an active life.

My deepest sympathies. I have been there.

My very religious grandmother asked me to bring her something to end her life twice. Once when the novelty of being in a home had worn off, after about three months, and boredom was setting in. I refused. The second time was when the process you describe was beginning to have its effect. I wish I could have helped her then.

 

[JumbleDuck]

i would say that there is a world of difference between an aged lady with severe pain and no hope of recovery and that of a middle aged physically healthy male with half a life time ahead but with some mental issues which ( have obviously ) can be helped . just to emphasise that cases can and are very different and no hard or fast doctrine can possibly cover them all .

That's why New Zealand is restricting assisted suicide to (a) the last six months of (b) terminal illness for (c) compos mentis people.

 

[JumbleDuck]

‘Natural’ deaths and murders are far easier to deal with than suicides. Not only the initial investigation but the subsequent dealings with the surviving family/friends/discoverers. NO ONE should have to ‘suffer’ the discovery of a suicide, especially a body recovered from the water.

My next door neighbour hanged himself. His body was discovered by his eleven year old son.

Anyone who believes that another has a ‘right’ to take their own live should be made to attend a body that has been in the water for any length of time, mangled under an underground train, hit a windscreen at great speed or left their brains over a wall.

It is precisely because these methods are so unpleasant for other people that I believe that safe, effective assisted suicide should be available for those who are dying anyway. The fact that suicide by train is a messy business (one of my best friends spent many years dealing with them - I've heard the stories) does not mean that someone dying of cancer should be denied merciful relief if they want it.

There have been a number of very personal stories on this thread, which have been brave and have my greatest respect. I do not know the personal experience of some others commenting on this thread BUT, if you have not had personal experiences, perhaps it would be nice if you didn’t comment on something that you can’t possibly empathise with.
Sometimes, it’s easy to sanction ‘rights’ from your armchair.

I have sat with dying family members three times. I have wiped water on the lips of a one hundred year old woman crying with pain and distress as her life ebbed away. I held my father's hand as his heart stopped beating. Don't you dare tell me that I don't have personal experience of these things.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Jumble Duck or anyone contemplating suicide by drowning in the sea.
Please don't do it.

Hence the anchor, but I take your point. First choice has to be a cup of barbiturates here, if the law has become more humane. Second is a one-way trip to Zürich.

 

[NotBirdseye]

Any chance of getting back on topic and moving the Assisted Suicide debate to current affairs or something?

 

[Stemar]

It seems to be the nature of long threads that they morph into something completely different. At least this one has sensitivity and maturity, not the slagging off that more often drives me away.

 

[Concerto]

Please as the OP, can we return to the orignal post. I know it has drifted on to lifeboats and suicide, even writing the post about my mother was heart renching despite happening about 8 years ago. Possibly it would be better to close the thread completely as it seems unlikely that anything constructive could still be added.

 

[dom]

Please as the OP, can we return to the orignal post. I know it has drifted on to lifeboats and suicide, even writing the post about my mother was heart renching despite happening about 8 years ago. Possibly it would be better to close the thread completely as it seems unlikely that anything constructive could still be added.

I'm not so sure, this is turning into one of the most interesting, thoughtful, and intelligent threads I've seen in quite some time!!!

 

[Moderator]

Thread locked pending consideration.