E10 again

[VicS]

Not previously mentioned that ethanol will displace the oil from a two stroke mixture ............................ Will it ? ................ A question refueler should be able to answer.

Not to worry the ethanol can be removed easily as this video shows ....... No comment !

 

[PCUK]

E5 will still be available but more expensive. From my MP.

 

[sarabande]

!!!

What a laugh . I was just waiting for a big bang !


I wonder what else from the fuel is taken out ? Lubricants, anti-ashing, octanes....

 

[VicS]

I wonder what else from the fuel is taken out ? Lubricants, anti-ashing, octanes....

Refueler will be able to tell us what water soluble components there are, if any, in E10

 

[Norman_E]

Just look at the relative volumes, he certainly did not remove anywhere close to 10% of the fuel volume.
E5 is available, called super grade or whatever the particular cil company call it, at more than 20p a litre extra.

 

[ctva]

I don't think I'll be doing that. I have a newish 2.5. The info on the Yamaha website whilst confirming that the 2.5 is fine, lists all the negatives...


Is the new E10 fuel suitable for my Yamaha?
Yes - for Yamaha motorcycles (incl. mopeds and ATVs) built after 1990
Yes - for Yamaha outboards and WaveRunners built after 2003



E10 petrol has a number of negative side effects that require extra attention:

• Aging of the fuel - The addition of ethanol in fuel means that the fuel quality deteriorates after only several months.
• Contamination of the fuel system - Ethanol is a solvent which can attack certain material compositions (rubber and plastics) of the fuel system, causing contamination.
• Damage to fuel hoses - Due to the solvent properties of ethanol, petrol hoses can become porous and even leak as they age and through exposure to ethanol in fuel.
• Attracting water - Ethanol is hydroscopic and will attract moisture/water to the fuel it is blended with, which will reduce the quality of the gasoline and can lead to corrosion if fuel components.

 

[RivalRedwing]

Jings, indoors, on a wobbly stool, zilch personal safety and an unproven efficiency......

Darwin Award beckons

 

[northwind]

My local garage is still selling E0 Unleaded.. They say they will continue, they are part of the local fuels group.

 

[Caraway]

Apparently some of the 'Super grades' are ethanol free.
I'm sure a Googling would identify them.

If you read you car's handbook it will tell you what level of ethanol is safe to use. My runabout is a 2007 Suzuki and that is OK.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I don't think I'll be doing that. I have a newish 2.5. The info on the Yamaha website whilst confirming that the 2.5 is fine, lists all the negatives...


Is the new E10 fuel suitable for my Yamaha?
Yes - for Yamaha motorcycles (incl. mopeds and ATVs) built after 1990
Yes - for Yamaha outboards and WaveRunners built after 2003



E10 petrol has a number of negative side effects that require extra attention:

• Aging of the fuel - The addition of ethanol in fuel means that the fuel quality deteriorates after only several months.
• Contamination of the fuel system - Ethanol is a solvent which can attack certain material compositions (rubber and plastics) of the fuel system, causing contamination.
• Damage to fuel hoses - Due to the solvent properties of ethanol, petrol hoses can become porous and even leak as they age and through exposure to ethanol in fuel.
• Attracting water - Ethanol is hydroscopic and will attract moisture/water to the fuel it is blended with, which will reduce the quality of the gasoline and can lead to corrosion if fuel components.

I can well believe that ethanol could dissolve some things more readily than petroleum (and vice versa) but if 10% ethanol does that how come there are no reported issues with the fairly common 5%. Or did they just hide it?

Further ethanol is not hydroscopic above certain limits, it doesnt absorb water forever and my meths, brandy and beer dont dilute themselves when exposed to wet atmospheres if in open container. So it will only absorb a certain percentage of itself. I am not sure how much but hardly infinite

Diesel and petrol will also absorb small percentages of water and biodiesel is estimated at 30 times more capable of absorbing water than mineral diesel. The problem however is not the fully absorbed water but when it comes out of solution due to change in temperature as then it settles at bottom of tank or carb and grows things

I am not sure what aging of fuel means here. Does the volatile ethanol evaporate and thus reduce the octane rating? Does the presence of more ethanol enable twice as many bugs to grow in your fuel? Does the ethanol react in someway with petrol or diesel to produce a new and less useful fuel component.

I cannot find any studies or papers that confirm or quantify the apparently deleterious changes to aging from a change from 5% to 10%, or even their mechanisms.

The only study I could find shows no difference between 5% and 10% on carburation seal damage though possible deterioration at higher percentages. No difference to metal components either

https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/uploads/fil... conc in petrol on carburettor components.pdf

 

[Caraway]

'hygroscopic'

 

[Iliade]

Even the 05 stuff can percolate through some plastic motorbike fuel tanks, lifting the paint...

 

[oldmanofthehills]

'hygroscopic'

correct. This disluxick grants you the Penant of the Daze award

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Even the 05 stuff can percolate through some plastic motorbike fuel tanks, lifting the paint...

Now that is a bit more worrying than having to replace a £1 "O" ring in the carb. I would imagine the lower molecular weight of ethanol compared with fossil fuels means smaller molecular size and more ready passage through some barriers. Leave it long enough and you might get 0% ethanol petrol