Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
Sheesh sometimes this place depresses me.
Dylan, you were right.
- Thread starter nathanlee
- Start date
Sheesh sometimes this place depresses me.
Pleiades
Well-Known Member
johnalison you need help. That is a serious problem you are afflicted by but don't despair. A solution is available if you are prepared to accept that you have a problem. There may even be charities that might assist but you must do something. Don't even think of selecting smaller bottles.
If I could only get 12 bottles in on a 34 footer I would fit a bigger table immediately
.
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
If I could only get 12 bottles in on a 34 footer I would fit a bigger table immediately
. Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
obmij
Well-Known Member
interloper
Well-Known Member
All the trouble is getting the boat in and out of the slip. I had the same anxieties, so I studies some Internet videos and took a class: < http://www.asa.com/asa_standards/standard_docking_endors.html >. I don't claim proficiency, but at least I know how things should work in theory.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Just screwed up the courage today to take my 37 footer out of its strange berth for the first time this year by myself. As soon as free from the land all the fears went away and I enjoyed the space, the power, the ease of handling and then put her away neatly in the proper berth. Demons banished - for a while.
interloper
Well-Known Member
Don't dismiss the idea of taking a class. The following are some of the things practiced in the class that I took < http://www.asa.com/asa_standards/standard_docking_endors.html >:
- When approaching the dock, maintain low forward speed by applying short bursts of power.
- When turning the wheel, the boat will pivot in the vicinity of the mast.
- When the throttle is put in reverse, prop walk will initially cause the stern to move toward port.
- When the throttle is held in reverse, the boat will gain sternway and may be steerable depending on the keel and rudder configuration and the wind direction.
- By alternating between forward and reverse with the wheel held to starboard, the boat will make a standing turn to starboard.
- Be aware that turning the rudder all the way to port or starboard may stall the rudder, so don't do that.
- Always stop in neutral and say "neutral" when shifting between forward and reverse to avoid damaging the transmission.
- The bow will always blow downwind.
- It is difficult to control the boat when going upwind at slow speed, so it may be easier to back into the slip if the wind is blowing out of the slip.
- Get the windward dock lines tied off first.
- To tie up alongside a dock that is to windward, get a spring line from a midship cleat to a piling or cleat on the dock and apply forward power with the wheel turned away from the dock.
- To tie up alongside a dock that is to leeward, just stop alongside the dock and let the wind carry you.
- To get underway from alongside a dock that is to windward, just release the lines and let the wind carry you.
- To get underway from alongside a dock that is to leeward, tie a spring line from the bow to a piling or cleat on the dock and apply forward power with the wheel turned toward the dock. Wait for the stern to pivot out, and then reverse away from the dock.
- When it is necessary to make a hard turn to windward when exiting a slip, use a spring line from a midship cleat to the windward outer piling.
- When exiting bow first from a slip with a crosswind, the last line to be released should be the windward stern line. By adjusting the throttle while hanging from just the windward stern line, the transverse position in the slip can be adjusted upwind or downwind.
One of the things that I like about Yachting Monthly is that there frequently are pictorials that describe some of the points above.
- When approaching the dock, maintain low forward speed by applying short bursts of power.
- When turning the wheel, the boat will pivot in the vicinity of the mast.
- When the throttle is put in reverse, prop walk will initially cause the stern to move toward port.
- When the throttle is held in reverse, the boat will gain sternway and may be steerable depending on the keel and rudder configuration and the wind direction.
- By alternating between forward and reverse with the wheel held to starboard, the boat will make a standing turn to starboard.
- Be aware that turning the rudder all the way to port or starboard may stall the rudder, so don't do that.
- Always stop in neutral and say "neutral" when shifting between forward and reverse to avoid damaging the transmission.
- The bow will always blow downwind.
- It is difficult to control the boat when going upwind at slow speed, so it may be easier to back into the slip if the wind is blowing out of the slip.
- Get the windward dock lines tied off first.
- To tie up alongside a dock that is to windward, get a spring line from a midship cleat to a piling or cleat on the dock and apply forward power with the wheel turned away from the dock.
- To tie up alongside a dock that is to leeward, just stop alongside the dock and let the wind carry you.
- To get underway from alongside a dock that is to windward, just release the lines and let the wind carry you.
- To get underway from alongside a dock that is to leeward, tie a spring line from the bow to a piling or cleat on the dock and apply forward power with the wheel turned toward the dock. Wait for the stern to pivot out, and then reverse away from the dock.
- When it is necessary to make a hard turn to windward when exiting a slip, use a spring line from a midship cleat to the windward outer piling.
- When exiting bow first from a slip with a crosswind, the last line to be released should be the windward stern line. By adjusting the throttle while hanging from just the windward stern line, the transverse position in the slip can be adjusted upwind or downwind.
One of the things that I like about Yachting Monthly is that there frequently are pictorials that describe some of the points above.
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
Its all the same just the scale changes, Actually Ferries and Super Tankers are easier than a Nic 32. Super Tankers just have to stop some where within a mile or so of the dock and the tugs do the rest. Ferries have all sorts of power and optional extras to help. So they are highly manouverable.
When the OP gets used to the scale and the peculiarities of the Nic 32 he will find the fun and the sailing increase.
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
I feel your pain or frustration.
I have recently had the same foolish idea and bought a bigger boat. Previously a C&C 24 now a 35 both old and cheep. The 35 much much less cheep.
So far total sailing time about 3 hours. Not a lot of fun mostly changing oil, hose’s you can’t reach, un sticking holding tank valves, replacing hoses checking electrical who said sailing was fun.
The time will come, I will get it ready, I wont find some thing more expensive to fix, I will eventually actually go sailing I will have fun.
We have to be optimists or we would no be sailors for very long.
Try changing to a mooring less awkward reversing and you can sail your dingy out to your 32 and off you go.
Avoid tight corners like marinas, Learn a few new skills like how to warp in and out of a berth.
Unfortunately most sailing schools or instructors will have more modern boats with fins and spade much easier to handle. Fortunately the principles remain the same. So may still be worth the expense to get a feel for a bigger boat with an inboard.
If not and you wish to try experimenting your self the following may be helpful in gaining “a feel” for your boat also hope I’m not trying to teach you how to suck eggs.( Why would anyone suck eggs)
Get out in the open. And practice.
Funny I was discussing some of this at length just today.
Practice stopping.
When it all goes wrong and things just are not working most people try to save it and continue the docking, often the last decision before the expensive crunch.
If you can stop the boat and abort the approach you will be able to get out of the bad situation.
If not as long as you can stop the boat and are not making way through the water the out come will not be to bad even if its not pretty expensive damage much less likely.
Plan B stop, Let the wind blow you down onto the wrong dock adjacent boat fenders help.
Re asses and try again.
After you have practised stopping ahead and astern.
Practice the short turn.
In an open space turn the boat at slow speed to starboard then to port and observe the difference.
Try again this time during the turns give a short burst of ahead and watch the turn tighten
I could give a long explanation of why this happens I try to keep really short.
Normally a boat pivots about a point slightly forward of amidships.
Imagine same boat with bow against a wall unable to move forward rudder hard over and engine running.
The pivot point will be right at the bow.
Now a stopped boat rudder hard over short burst of power pivot point is right at the bow as boat accelerates the pivot point moves aster until its near amidships.
The idea is to use the power when stopped briefly and avoid accelerating.
brief shot of power.
Shift through to astern.
Shot of power astern to bring speed back down to zero.
The shot astern will help your turn if you are going to starboard as the prop walk will continue the turn but walking the stern to port and the bow to starboard.
You will notice if you try turn to port the astern propulsion undoes or counters your turn but less than your initial shot ahead.
Try both in open now you will have a feel for how to turn the boat.
You have already noticed steering astern in a long keel boat is a challenge.
To get steerage way best to avoid a burst of astern prop walk will walk stern to port.
Rudder will be relatively small compared to keel and without prop wash past rudder you will need to slowly accelerate to get a flow over rudder and for it to have an effect.
This effect will be easily overcome by other influences and have limited effect unless you have a lot of way on which of course has its own hazard poor steering high speed not a cunning plan.
Better as some else suggested go slow and go ahead every so often to straighten out.
You will find the practicing fun if you find you self enough space to practice without the fear of consequences.
Once you have tried in open space try aging in tighter space.
Once you feel comfortable try an easy docking port side to on an open berth with little wind or tide.
As your comfort level increases try more awkward docks
Look up how to use springs, especially amidships spring they can really help
I have recently had the same foolish idea and bought a bigger boat. Previously a C&C 24 now a 35 both old and cheep. The 35 much much less cheep.
So far total sailing time about 3 hours. Not a lot of fun mostly changing oil, hose’s you can’t reach, un sticking holding tank valves, replacing hoses checking electrical who said sailing was fun.
The time will come, I will get it ready, I wont find some thing more expensive to fix, I will eventually actually go sailing I will have fun.
We have to be optimists or we would no be sailors for very long.
Try changing to a mooring less awkward reversing and you can sail your dingy out to your 32 and off you go.
Avoid tight corners like marinas, Learn a few new skills like how to warp in and out of a berth.
Unfortunately most sailing schools or instructors will have more modern boats with fins and spade much easier to handle. Fortunately the principles remain the same. So may still be worth the expense to get a feel for a bigger boat with an inboard.
If not and you wish to try experimenting your self the following may be helpful in gaining “a feel” for your boat also hope I’m not trying to teach you how to suck eggs.( Why would anyone suck eggs)
Get out in the open. And practice.
Funny I was discussing some of this at length just today.
Practice stopping.
When it all goes wrong and things just are not working most people try to save it and continue the docking, often the last decision before the expensive crunch.
If you can stop the boat and abort the approach you will be able to get out of the bad situation.
If not as long as you can stop the boat and are not making way through the water the out come will not be to bad even if its not pretty expensive damage much less likely.
Plan B stop, Let the wind blow you down onto the wrong dock adjacent boat fenders help.
Re asses and try again.
After you have practised stopping ahead and astern.
Practice the short turn.
In an open space turn the boat at slow speed to starboard then to port and observe the difference.
Try again this time during the turns give a short burst of ahead and watch the turn tighten
I could give a long explanation of why this happens I try to keep really short.
Normally a boat pivots about a point slightly forward of amidships.
Imagine same boat with bow against a wall unable to move forward rudder hard over and engine running.
The pivot point will be right at the bow.
Now a stopped boat rudder hard over short burst of power pivot point is right at the bow as boat accelerates the pivot point moves aster until its near amidships.
The idea is to use the power when stopped briefly and avoid accelerating.
brief shot of power.
Shift through to astern.
Shot of power astern to bring speed back down to zero.
The shot astern will help your turn if you are going to starboard as the prop walk will continue the turn but walking the stern to port and the bow to starboard.
You will notice if you try turn to port the astern propulsion undoes or counters your turn but less than your initial shot ahead.
Try both in open now you will have a feel for how to turn the boat.
You have already noticed steering astern in a long keel boat is a challenge.
To get steerage way best to avoid a burst of astern prop walk will walk stern to port.
Rudder will be relatively small compared to keel and without prop wash past rudder you will need to slowly accelerate to get a flow over rudder and for it to have an effect.
This effect will be easily overcome by other influences and have limited effect unless you have a lot of way on which of course has its own hazard poor steering high speed not a cunning plan.
Better as some else suggested go slow and go ahead every so often to straighten out.
You will find the practicing fun if you find you self enough space to practice without the fear of consequences.
Once you have tried in open space try aging in tighter space.
Once you feel comfortable try an easy docking port side to on an open berth with little wind or tide.
As your comfort level increases try more awkward docks
Look up how to use springs, especially amidships spring they can really help
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Nathanlee, you have made he right decision to trade up, but you need to persevere and learn how to handle you new boat. It may not be the right boat for you and you might have been better off with a bilge keeler like a Sadler 32 but your problems are small and you will overcome them. Just get a chum to come out with you so that you can practice but have the piece on mind that he will jam a fender in when necessary.
nathanlee
Well-Known Member
Thank you kindly for writing all that. You're dead right, I just need to get off by backside and take her out. I will.
Laurin
Well-Known Member
I guess the process has taken a little longer due to the ankle biters on board, but I can honestly say it's taken me a couple of years to be as confident in Laurin as I was in our 26' Stella when we sold her.
onesea
Well-Known Member
Just remember to keep it easy boat handling is a feel good sport, you have to be relaxed and confident to make you do it right. Lots of fenders and practice...
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
Lots of empathy, it's like the job application conundrum, you see a job that requires experience but you can't apply because you don't have any but can't get any experience without that job.
For me the change with The Kipper came when I took an inexperienced mate out for a sail. He could tie and untie ropes and having him there with a fender gave me confidence until I realised that I hadn't actually needed him to do anything. Long keels and grounding are an issue but at the end of the day what's the worst that can happen? You spend 6 hours at a crazy angle.
For me the change with The Kipper came when I took an inexperienced mate out for a sail. He could tie and untie ropes and having him there with a fender gave me confidence until I realised that I hadn't actually needed him to do anything. Long keels and grounding are an issue but at the end of the day what's the worst that can happen? You spend 6 hours at a crazy angle.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
Nathan, I have the same - but with the SAME boat!
This seasons refit included a new engine (rotates the other way, prop that works properly and loads of power) new rig and main (that is frankly in a different league from the mast that sat on a rotten plank and sail that set like a bin bag) and the whole experence is different.
1st sail - had what I expected to be "right" for the conditions but with the new powerful rig / sails I was on my ear in seconds. Hove too is in a different tiller + main position etc. I now need to re-learn my sail combinations.
New engine is so powerful that on the 2nd time out I set the tiller as I expected, pulled the spring to swing the bows out and kicked the throttle to get us going - all excatly, like I always used to. Bows came out, engine reved, prop dug in and we were off. It was only quick thinking by SWIMBO (who grabbed the tiller from me) that stopped us attempting to jump the finger next to ours at 6kn. Oh and in the mess, I dropped the stern line overboad and had to pull it in as fast as I could to stop it getting round the prop. I am going to have to rethink casting off!
Part of the fun this season is going to be learning how to handle her in her all-new condition. I see it as a challenge and one that once over will open the world of longer distance crusing to me.
This seasons refit included a new engine (rotates the other way, prop that works properly and loads of power) new rig and main (that is frankly in a different league from the mast that sat on a rotten plank and sail that set like a bin bag) and the whole experence is different.
1st sail - had what I expected to be "right" for the conditions but with the new powerful rig / sails I was on my ear in seconds. Hove too is in a different tiller + main position etc. I now need to re-learn my sail combinations.
New engine is so powerful that on the 2nd time out I set the tiller as I expected, pulled the spring to swing the bows out and kicked the throttle to get us going - all excatly, like I always used to. Bows came out, engine reved, prop dug in and we were off. It was only quick thinking by SWIMBO (who grabbed the tiller from me) that stopped us attempting to jump the finger next to ours at 6kn. Oh and in the mess, I dropped the stern line overboad and had to pull it in as fast as I could to stop it getting round the prop. I am going to have to rethink casting off!
Part of the fun this season is going to be learning how to handle her in her all-new condition. I see it as a challenge and one that once over will open the world of longer distance crusing to me.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I am grateful for your concern but I was pitching my reply at my interpretation of the Forum's interests.
We will start our three months cruise with three dozen bottles of wine, which we (2)will just about finish when we get home. The bottle of rum will be about 3/4 full and the whisky hardly touched. So that's a bottle of wine between two, every three days, with a bit of help from a VacuVin to spread it out. I don't think this comes under most people's definition of problem-drinking.
Salty John
Well-Known Member
If you want to do what Dylan's doing you certainly have picked the wrong boat, but if you are looking for blue water adventure then you know you've made a good choice. I'm pretty sure you chose the boat to eventually head off to the wide blue yonder rather than follow the groove of Dylan's keel up a muddy creek. It won't be long before you have the Nic doing what you ask of her - almost.
Athene V30
Well-Known Member
Don't fret too much, you get used to the unpredictability of the long keel and chose your berths accordingly. For the ECF meet at Bradwell the other Saturday for the first time EVER I managed to berth in a marina stern to. OK conditions were near perfect but after 3 seasons it was a confidence boost! The last Saturday, different conditions, I refused the first berth offered to me by the marina as I knew it was too risky in the conditions and this time I didn't even consider berthing stern to. There have been times I have turned the boat on her ropes rather than try and turn under power.
Take her to sea and the long keel is the solo sailors friend, so directionally stable. And don't worry about the draft, just don't push it other than on a rising tide. Then if you know your bottom you can use it as a friend. I have on occasions used the weather mud bank as a convenient place to set sail, then when ready helm over, pull in main, heel a bit and off you go. You can do it!
Take her to sea and the long keel is the solo sailors friend, so directionally stable. And don't worry about the draft, just don't push it other than on a rising tide. Then if you know your bottom you can use it as a friend. I have on occasions used the weather mud bank as a convenient place to set sail, then when ready helm over, pull in main, heel a bit and off you go. You can do it!
sighmoon
Well-Known Member
Any chance you can get a swinging mooring rather than being in a marina? Never having to reverse will encourage you to go out more.
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Lots of good advice
I would add. When coming in to an unfamiliar berth or iffy crooswind/tidal berth or going out at first , I set 5 fenders each side .
The anchor is ready to 'go'. ( ok so it can be dropped from the cockpit)
And if prudent, bow, stern and midships lines each side with their ends tied v v loosely ( but well enough) at the midship gates in the lifelines, one or both of which will be 'open' and clipped tidily away..
May sound a bit anal but it covers a multitude of unexpected events, or seems to anyway..
You can deploy lines and fenders whilst coming in under sail too you know, or motoring gently with autopilot up a river...
And perhaps as you have a tiller , think about a pin in it and a pinrail at the back of the cockpit coaming, so the filler can be let go ( eg reversing out of a berth into a crosswind) slowly and predictably whilst you walk the bow back until clear, without the rudder swinging hard over and further complicating things..
It's all in the detail and planning. Casting off without thinking things thru ( done that) and its all an unforeseen mess about to unfold..
Midweek still, tideless mornings with no one about will be brilliant for having a practise..
I would add. When coming in to an unfamiliar berth or iffy crooswind/tidal berth or going out at first , I set 5 fenders each side .
The anchor is ready to 'go'. ( ok so it can be dropped from the cockpit)
And if prudent, bow, stern and midships lines each side with their ends tied v v loosely ( but well enough) at the midship gates in the lifelines, one or both of which will be 'open' and clipped tidily away..
May sound a bit anal but it covers a multitude of unexpected events, or seems to anyway..
You can deploy lines and fenders whilst coming in under sail too you know, or motoring gently with autopilot up a river...
And perhaps as you have a tiller , think about a pin in it and a pinrail at the back of the cockpit coaming, so the filler can be let go ( eg reversing out of a berth into a crosswind) slowly and predictably whilst you walk the bow back until clear, without the rudder swinging hard over and further complicating things..
It's all in the detail and planning. Casting off without thinking things thru ( done that) and its all an unforeseen mess about to unfold..
Midweek still, tideless mornings with no one about will be brilliant for having a practise..
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