Dummies Guide to Seagulls

Hi All
I'm new to this site and have just bought a seagull 40 plus. (sjp 731 r8)

I'm having problems with it and need help.

I changed the gear oil today and pleased i did and it was very gooey yellow/light brown colour which I'm sure it this is bad and pleased as changed it with ep140 oil.

The problem I have it the outlet water is not coming out, i stuck a wire into the outlet and seem fine. please help!!!!!!!!
 
merc,
The gear oil is always coffee coloured emulsion on a seagull. There's no proper oil seal to prevent water entering. It doesn't matter though. have you looked at Saving Our Seagulls website - there's lots of good info there. Can't help with the water problem I'm afraid - it must be a blockage in the pipework somewhere and could be a bugger to find. The water pump is a metal rotor with wide tolerances so unlikely to cause trouble - unlike modern outboard pumps.
 
merc450se said:
Hi All
I'm new to this site and have just bought a seagull 40 plus. (sjp 731 r8)

I'm having problems with it and need help.

I changed the gear oil today and pleased i did and it was very gooey yellow/light brown colour which I'm sure it this is bad and pleased as changed it with ep140 oil.

The problem I have it the outlet water is not coming out, i stuck a wire into the outlet and seem fine. please help!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

As suggested visit the Saving OLD Seagulls website http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/ and the associated forums. There is not much to know about Seagulls that is not on the SOS website.

You dont say if you were running it on the boat or in a barrel. Often difficult to get a good cooling water flow in a barrel unless you take the prop off and they don't usually pump any water through at idle speed either.

Try back flushing by holding a hose tight up against the outlet and also have a good dig about in the outlet with a stout wire.

Featherweight in a good sized tank at a fast idle speed. As you can see a good water flow.

DSCF0417.jpg
 
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merc450se said:
Hi All
I'm new to this site and have just bought a seagull 40 plus. (sjp 731 r8)

I'm having problems with it and need help.

I changed the gear oil today and pleased i did and it was very gooey yellow/light brown colour which I'm sure it this is bad and pleased as changed it with ep140 oil.

The problem I have it the outlet water is not coming out, i stuck a wire into the outlet and seem fine. please help!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
No real need to change the oil. Your nice new oil will weep out and be replaced by seawater and will look like the old oil in a few hours. The water pump rotor is in the top of the gear case driven by the square drive shaft and there is a pipe that goes through the middle of the exhaust tube to take the water up into the cylinder block. It is a centrifugal pump so needs revs to get water flowing. You can try back flushing through the outlet hole on the block. You should see water coming out of thew slots at the bottom. If it does not then the pipe is probably blocked and you will have to split the gearbox off to get at the pipe. That engine is seriously OLD!
 
jac said:
What is not clear is are they as good or better than fishermen and what scope should I use when anchoring to one. (Can't think what else you would use it for)
Click to expand...

A 40+ is not really comparable with a Fisherman. They were 5.5 or 6 hp twin cylinder engines.
 
jac said:
Sorry - was trying to turn into an anchor thread. Best use for a seagull.
Click to expand...

funniest thing to do with a Seagull.

Wrap two large Alka selzer tablets in bread and feed to Seagull.....

dread thrift I know but oh so funny to watch......
 
Hi, many thanks for your replies.

I have stuck a hose pipe into the outlet and all working now which great :-)

Thank you for the advice re the gear box and pleased what came out was OK.

I have another problem and now which i hope it normal, i shall try and put a photo on here. I have oil come from the top of the exhaust tube, only slight at present.
2013-07-24 14.48.43.jpg
 
merc450se said:
Hi, many thanks for your replies.

I have stuck a hose pipe into the outlet and all working now which great :-)

Thank you for the advice re the gear box and pleased what came out was OK.

I have another problem and now which i hope it normal, i shall try and put a photo on here. I have oil come from the top of the exhaust tube, only slight at present.
View attachment 33941
Click to expand...

Nothing to worry about. That is just unburnt oil residue because the engine should be running on 10:1 mixture. You may find it is reduced if you get the correct needle for the carb and run it on 25:1.
 
It's unburnt oil from the fuel. Seagulls are messy oily things because they run on such an oil rich fuel mix. The gear boxes tend to leak as well

Looks as though there is bit of a leak at the joint at the top of the exhaust tube on yours. I think there is an O ring in the joint but not sure. One of my parts lists includes it. The other does not. Id not worry unless it causes any other problems.

Post 1968 models can be converted to run on 25:1 fuel mix but not advised for earlier ones. 25:1 makes them a bit less messy but even so always allow for oil to drip from them when stored and leak from several places when in the car boot.

Dont totally ignore the gear box. Be sure to top it up periodically and change the oil from time to time as well.
 
Hi, that's good to hear, so if i just run it on 10:1 it will still be OK though???

I'm looking forward to taking my boat out hopefully if the weather good this weekend.

Is it also true that you only put the gear box about 2 to 3 inches into the water when it is mounted on the back of the boat. I read somewhere that is runs better than having too deep.
 
merc450se said:
Hi, that's good to hear, so if i just run it on 10:1 it will still be OK though???

I'm looking forward to taking my boat out hopefully if the weather good this weekend.

Is it also true that you only put the gear box about 2 to 3 inches into the water when it is mounted on the back of the boat. I read somewhere that is runs better than having too deep.
Click to expand...

Should be OK Use a TCW3 two stroke outboard engine oil.

Gear box immersed , water pump housing also and exhaust outlet about 2" under. Difficult to be precise in a small boat, unnecessary too.

Too deep may make it difficult to start due to the back pressure on the exhaust, although not my experience. If possible move crew weight forward until engine is running ( Also saves whacking them on the head when you pull the starter cord)

Not deep enough and you wont be pumping cooling water properly.

Looks like yours has a hose clip fitted on the drive shaft tube as an improvised depth adjusting collar ????


A proper depth adjusting collar:

DSCF0748.jpg
 
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Hi, that's great and many thanks for the advice about how deep etc.

Also I will be careful who I whack when starting ha ha ha

Yeah it is a hose clip and the old owner did it. (well spotted) where would I get a proper depth adjusting collar and any idea how much? Maybe it just needs a new bolts and nuts though.

do you know anything about the engine number? sjp 731 r8
$T2eC16FHJIIFHKEbWiVJBR664cD2LQ~~48_80.JPG

p.s. I only bought this seagull last week
 
merc450se said:
Hi, that's great and many thanks for the advice about how deep etc.

Also I will be careful who I whack when starting ha ha ha

Yeah it is a hose clip and the old owner did it. (well spotted) where would I get a proper depth adjusting collar and any idea how much? Maybe it just needs a new bolts and nuts though.

do you know anything about the engine number? sjp 731 r8
View attachment 33947

p.s. I only bought this seagull last week
Click to expand...

Depth collars might be available from John Williams at Saving Old Seagulls or they may not now be available at all. 70p when I bought mine !


The Engine Identifier on SOS does not seem to recognise the number of your engine...
But just putting in just SJP731 makes it 1956 or 57. The R8 may indicate that it was reconditioned at the factory in 1968.

Seriously old as Tranona says . I reckon he must have only been the tea boy at the works when that one was built!

Maybe worth reading through the ID letters pages http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_d_your_seagull/i_d_letters.htm for yourself.

Explore the rest of the SOS website too


Worth getting a spare prop drive spring
 
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VicS said:
Should be OK Use a TCW3 two stroke outboard engine oil.

Gear box immersed , water pump housing also and exhaust outlet about 2" under. Difficult to be precise in a small boat, unnecessary too.

Too deep may make it difficult to start due to the back pressure on the exhaust, although not my experience. If possible move crew weight forward until engine is running ( Also saves whacking them on the head when you pull the starter cord)

Not deep enough and you wont be pumping cooling water properly.

Looks like yours has a hose clip fitted on the drive shaft tube as an improvised depth adjusting collar ????


A proper depth adjusting collar:

DSCF0748.jpg
Click to expand...
Well its taken me 46 years to realise you could adjust its depth setting.
Mine runs on 10 to 1 general purpose 2 stroke .Oil in my gearbox is a bit thick these days after 46 years but I keep forgetting to sort it.
It starts second pull no trouble on its origional plug if you strictly follow the warm start and cold start rules.
I will admit it spent from 1970 until 1990 shut away in my Dads garage until time came to clear it out and no doubt it will suffer the same fate when my garage has to be cleared out!
 
neil_s said:
If the seagull you have is like mine and you do as you describe, it will start on the second pull.

Neil
Click to expand...
Yours must be duff. Both of mine were always first pull, or maybe I had a longer string or pulled harder. Most reliable things I've ever owned. Disgustingly noisy, messy, polluting though, which is why I now put up with 2 or 3 pulls to start a modern engine.
 
VicS said:
Depth collars might be available from John Williams at Saving Old Seagulls or they may not now be available at all. 70p when I bought mine !


The Engine Identifier on SOS does not seem to recognise the number of your engine...
But just putting in just SJP731 makes it 1956 or 57. The R8 may indicate that it was reconditioned at the factory in 1968.

Seriously old as Tranona says . I reckon he must have only been the tea boy at the works when that one was built!

Maybe worth reading through the ID letters pages http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_d_your_seagull/i_d_letters.htm for yourself.

Explore the rest of the SOS website too


Worth getting a spare prop drive spring
Click to expand...

Hi, That's great and I shall check that website and see if i can get a Depth collars.

wow the engine is 1956 or 57. she a pretty old girl then, i better look after her!!!!!! Any idea why they would have reconditioned it, did they have a recoil?

Just looking at the prop drive spring now and also look for a ht cap as this one is missing
2013-07-24 13.19.54.jpg
 
VicS has the dating correct. We ran a reconditioning service at that time and it is quite possible that your engine was originally used by a hire fleet - we had hundreds of engines on lakes and reservoirs on fishing boats etc and regularly reconditioned them for the operators. The R signifies that.

There may be no need for an adjusting collar. Most small dinghies are made with a transom board 15" above the waterline which is correct for your standard engine. However, many of the early inflatables such as Avons had lower transoms so we made a shorter engine (40 featherweight) with 13" shaft, but you could shorten the 40+ with the collar.

No viable recoil starter for that model, although Siba did make one in period it was a real heath robinson affair and not really needed.
 
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