Dummies Guide to Seagulls

[ghostlymoron]

The spring on the propeller is to protect the prop if you hit something. Once broken it has to be replaced as the engine no longer turns the prop. If it is merely straightened, you may be able to bend it back into shape but it's as well to have a spare or two handy.

 

[Reptile Smile]

When you stop the engine don't forget to shut the air-vent on top of the tank and close the fuel tap. This is particularly important if you are tipping the engine into the horizontal position.

When re-starting, reverse the above and be sparing with the choke if the engine is still hot.

if it has started once, then a restart should be a doddle.

Oh.



Can I fess up to something?

I knew about this air vent thing, but couldn't open it, so just opened the whole filler cap.

When the knowledgable bloke rescued me from the mud next to the commodore's mooring, he said, "Well, that'll have flooded it..." and promptly closed it.

I'd forgotten about that. Presumably that accounts for quite a lot of my difficulties in starting it - in that I was at risk of constantly flooding it..?

 

[Reptile Smile]

The spring on the propeller is to protect the prop if you hit something. Once broken it has to be replaced as the engine no longer turns the prop. If it is merely straightened, you may be able to bend it back into shape but it's as well to have a spare or two handy.

So that might have happened from trying to start it in the mud, but not from pulling too great a load?

At the point at which the help came, it felt almost the compression had tripled - that is, it would still turn by the starter cord, but only with huge effort and no where near enough to start.

Spring? Mud caught in somewhere..?

 

[Tranona]

Your Foxcub will be set up to use a long shaft motor - and the dinghy uses a short shaft. Although an LS 40+ will drive the yacht a short shaft will not because the prop is not in the water enough.

Suggest if you are going to repeat the exercise of just moving the boat, then the correct way to do it is to lash the dinghy alongside with a line to the stern and the bow plus a spring. Ideally you need another person at the tiller of the yacht to steer. I have moved 3 tons of Eventide 26 comfortably with an Avon Redcrest and a 40+ using this method.

 

[Lakesailor]

My Foxcub came with a Seagull which had been moving it about for years.
I put a Yamaha 4 stroke on as I had a swinging mooring and the lack of gears or a neutral made it less than satisfactory as I was mainly single-handed.
The day I collected the boat the owner ploughed the full length of Coniston in 40mph winds to get to the launch site where there was a tractor (which we needed!). The Seagull didn't complain.
It was a long shaft one.

 

[VicS]

Thanks for the feedback, and I appreciate the offer very much. I suppose the only thing about the SOS website is that I saw it as a brilliant resource, but that of a commercial operation, and therefore not entirely impartial..? But perhaps I'm being unnecessarily cynical.

Don't dismiss Saving-old-Seagulls as a commercial operation.

You'll find answers to most of the things you'll need to know about on the website. Its fantastic resource for Seagull owners.

Compare it with http://www.britishseagull.co.uk/

http://www.britishseagullparts.com/index.htm is another source of information


Read the section about John Williams http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/about_me/about_me.htm

The SOS forum is also a valuable source of help from other Seagull fanatics.

Beware of buying Seagull parts on ebay... Dont do it without checking John Williams prices.

 

[Reptile Smile]

Hmm, sorry if that didn't come across right. I didn't mean to dismiss anything - like I said, I thought it was a brilliant resource. I just wasn't sure that reading it was the best way as to ascertain whether the British Seagull was appropriate for what I had in mind/my boat, as opposed to considering the relative virtues of other marques...

I'm certainly aware of his reputation, work and prices - the site is testament to a huge amount of passion...

 

[Pleiades]

Child's play

Nuff said?

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

 

[ghostlymoron]

Definately don't write off Seagulls - I saw one last year on the Greek island of Evia. Still pushing Manos out to sea fishing after 50 years. I don't think modern Tomos's will be running in 2061.

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

Excellent kit !

Having owned a variety of seagull o/b's over the last thirty years I can say without prejudice that anyone who wants a truly unburstable, reliable method of propelling a dinghy or small vessel need look no further than a Honda !

The misplaced loyalty given to British built antiques is admirable but pointless.

Pouring near neat oil into the seas that has notionally been lubricating the primitive innards of a 1930's designed museum piece may have been ok in the heady days of post war Britain but surely most right thinking folk will be somewhat averse to liberally seasoning the local fish/birdlife with premium castrol 2 stroke oil in a ratio of 20-1 with petrol...

Best other use for Seagull o/boards is as a convenient kedge anchor or emergency pointy ballast !!

I await the howls of protest with interest !!

 

[rotrax]

Most Seagull's I have used required starting on full throttle when hot. When it was a 40+ with a fixed gear that could be interesting..................

 

[electrosys]

The misplaced loyalty given to British built antiques is admirable but pointless.

Pouring near neat oil into the seas that has notionally been lubricating the primitive innards of a 1930's designed museum piece may have been ok in the heady days of post war Britain but surely most right thinking folk will be somewhat averse to liberally seasoning the local fish/birdlife with premium castrol 2 stroke oil in a ratio of 20-1 with petrol...

Mmmm. Touch of the trolls, methinks ?

Well, castor oil may have come from a bean, but the oil I use (at 10:1) originated from marine organisms .. so I'm simply returning it 'from whence it came'. THFIC, of course.

In the 1930's, the Seagull design wasn't considered a museum piece, and last time I looked, the sea itself hasn't changed much since then.

"misplaced loyalty ... admirable but pointless" - condescending or what ? I run mine, not out of any sense of loyalty, but because Seagulls are the most economical outboard engines within their power range. Ok, so they are more fuel-hungry than modern 4-strokes, but if you take spares, repairs and servicing costs into account, then the Seagull wins every time. I will openly admit to just a hint of schadenfreude each time I hear of someone needing to replace their rubber impeller, for example.

If I needed a 30+HP donk to get me on the plane, then a Seagull clearly wouldn't do - but for my displacement fishing boat, a circa 5 horse motor swinging a slow-revving 13" diameter prop is exactly what I require. Not too many modern outboards can meet that spec.

 

[Tranona]

Just a minor correction. The majority of the Seagulls in use (and all the 40 series with 64cc powerheads) are not 1930s designs but date from the early 1950's. Pre-war Seagulls were very different designs. The 102 model was designed and built during the war for the military. The postwar designs were simplified, cheapened and designed for much larger scale production but kept the features such as cast iron cylinder, centrifugal water pump and plain bearings which contribute so much to their long life.

 

[rotrax]

Just a minor correction. The majority of the Seagulls in use (and all the 40 series with 64cc powerheads) are not 1930s designs but date from the early 1950's. Pre-war Seagulls were very different designs. The 102 model was designed and built during the war for the military. The postwar designs were simplified, cheapened and designed for much larger scale production but kept the features such as cast iron cylinder, centrifugal water pump and plain bearings which contribute so much to their long life.

Tranona is correct in this. The seagulls are often mistaken for marinised Villiers engines, but this is not correct. The origionals were manufactured by the John Marston Company-they made the very high quality pre-war Sunbeam motorcycles which were renowned for their finish. This was due to the expensive stoving enamels used on the cycle parts. The Seagull fuel tanks benifited from this also and is perhaps the reason that so many elderly brass tanked seagulls are still in use and look pretty good after all these years.

 

[Searush]

A few drips of oil in millions of cubic Km of sea water is not exactly an issue, especially when one takes into account the carbon cost of making new engines every few years as your modern engines die young.

Old cars, outboards, boats, bikes etc are far more eco-friendly than new, simply because their slightly higher running pollution is more than offset by the length of time that the production carbon cost has been depreciated over.

 

[Tranona]

Tranona is correct in this. The seagulls are often mistaken for marinised Villiers engines, but this is not correct. The origionals were manufactured by the John Marston Company-they made the very high quality pre-war Sunbeam motorcycles which were renowned for their finish. This was due to the expensive stoving enamels used on the cycle parts. The Seagull fuel tanks benifited from this also and is perhaps the reason that so many elderly brass tanked seagulls are still in use and look pretty good after all these years.

Ah! the tank saga. I joined Seagull right at the time the decision was made to change to pressed steel tanks, usual reason reducing cost. Endless problems. Vibration causing cracks on the mounting plates, seams splitting, corrosion on the seam etc. Tried plastic coating, which was fine until it split and caused even worse corrosion. Fortunately we found huge stocks of brass tank components, so for a while reverted to brass until the all plastic tank came in. Funny thing was that there were few problems with the large tank, it was mostly the small ones which got knocked about.

Although the brass tanks were fiddly to make and arguably a bit more expensive, when the warranty costs were included, probably cost the company less!

 

[ghostlymoron]

A few drips of oil in millions of cubic Km of sea water is not exactly an issue, especially when one takes into account the carbon cost of making new engines every few years as your modern engines die young.

Old cars, outboards, boats, bikes etc are far more eco-friendly than new, simply because their slightly higher running pollution is more than offset by the length of time that the production carbon cost has been depreciated over.

Hear hear Searush. Well said.

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

Troll ?

Mmmm. Touch of the trolls, methinks ?

Well, castor oil may have come from a bean, but the oil I use (at 10:1) originated from marine organisms .. so I'm simply returning it 'from whence it came'. THFIC, of course.

In the 1930's, the Seagull design wasn't considered a museum piece, and last time I looked, the sea itself hasn't changed much since then.

Hmm, Troll eh?
So disagreeing that an antiquated piece of engineering is not the finest thing available to mankind is 'Trolling' . As you say, in the 30's...
Interesting though that you are making these comments via a 21st century medium but hey ho, the guys at Bletchley Park probably would have had no use for a modern PC to crack codes as 30's technology worked...Eventually. In the manner of a Seagull.

 

[Hobnob]

Having owned a variety of seagull o/b's over the last thirty years I can say without prejudice that anyone who wants a truly unburstable, reliable method of propelling a dinghy or small vessel need look no further than a Honda !

+1 on the pro-Seagull comments, particularly relating to total cost of environmental impact.

I have participated in the dissembly of a Honda 2.3 outboard (air-cooled, 4stroke). There was a general lack of adaptation from a lawnmower engine to a marine engine. In particular, the corrosion/decay on the carb components rendered it wholly unserviceable.

By contrast, the only rust on my 1979 Seagull 40+ is restricted to surface corrosion on the tank straps. I won't comment on my 102, as it is likely assembled from a few different engines, but it works despite the fact that several parts are probably War Department era.

 

[Burnham Bob]

Just an observation for Grumpy, there are three stages of a machine. Firstly the mark 1 prototype that works but with some shortcomings. Secondly, the mark 1 model with bits added to cure the problems - like a huge flywheel to smooth out lumpy running etcetera, and the third stage which is the simplest of all with all the errors and inefficiencies designed out. In terms of translating fossil fuels into forward motion for a boat, a Seagull is as close as you can get to stage 3. 2 stroke engines are simple. in mechanical terms I think they are very elegant. environmental factors are a moot point. they do burn oil and they do leave an oil slick at times. but see the above posts about an old existing seagull pressed into continued service as opposed to a newly sourced and manufactured four stroke.

My old seagull just died of a shot bearing at almost 40 years of age. it has been replaced by a honda. but if the seagull had not died i would have seen no reason to retire it for a modern alternative.