Dumb first time channel crossing questions...

[prv]

I've tried many times to work out how to do this, but failed. If only they'd made DSC sets as easy to use as a mobile phone.

I don't think mine is any more difficult than a mobile phone, except the extra step of choosing a working channel. Press "Call", select "Individual", select the station you want to call, select the working channel you want to use, press go.

I have all the South Coast and Channel Island coastguards in my "phonebook". I'd add friends if cruising in company (I think I put yours and Dave's in for the Poole trip, for instance).

Pete

 

[prv]

The astute will ask "so why not just call them up on the working channel and save yourself the hassle?".

And the answer is that only Solent officially maintain a listening watch on their working channel, due to the volume of routine traffic they get. The others do not officially listen out on their working channel (I don't know if they do so unofficially) and the procedure is to call them on 16 and then both switch to working. The DSC does that step for you, and without taking up time on 16.

Pete

 

[Kukri]

Anything is possible when it's invented by people who didn't do the sums when they thought that 9 digits including a fixed format for the marine identification digits etc. was enough.

Don't start me...

The International Maritime Organisation is the only UN body based in the UK.

Unfortunately it is run by idiots.

They have screwed up VHF radio; they have screwed up electronic charts; they were thirty years too late with ballast water exchange and they screwed that up too and they have not bothered to overhaul the Colregs since 1972.. despite VHF, despite ARPA, despite AIS - none of which get a mention in the Rules...

 

[[70521]]

they have not bothered to overhaul the Colregs since 1972...

Is there a need to update the Colregs? Has the mark one eyeball changed?

 

[prv]

Is there a need to update the Colregs? Has the mark one eyeball changed?

The mark one eyeball has been augmented, so it's not totally daft to imagine the regs being updated to mention other technologies the same way they do radar. Can't say I see a pressing need for change myself though.

Pete

 

[Kukri]

Is there a need to update the Colregs? Has the mark one eyeball changed?

Well, the Mark One eyeball hasn't changed since 1863 at the latest, so there was never a need to update them, was there? In fact, did we need any Colregs in 1863 - the sea was still much the same as in 863...

I didn't have in mind yachts alone when I wrote that. In fact the Colregs have never gone so for so long without major revision since they were first introduced.

The current Secretary General of the IMO agrees with me - but he cannot initiate a call for revision - that has to come from the member states...

 

[Sailfree]

Don't want to put the dampers on this thread but a few words on safety communication and their effect might be informative and start a further discussion on other practices.

See that no one has mentioned a buddy system. Have someone in UK that you can text/e mail/phone your intended passage to and ETA and confirm on arrival. If 4hr trip then I would ask them to call coast guard after say 4hr overdue if I have not contacted them and they could not contact me. For a channel crossing I would say 6hrs unless wind on the nose then 8hrs. You can judge best.

To put this in perspective a friend lodged passage plan with CG and CG did nothing until we contacted CG after they were overdue. Weather was bad (Holland back to E coast). After contacting CG they put out an all ships to look out for their boat. They turned up in UK but v late due to weather.

The lesson I learnt was CG do not sent out rescues unless a mayday etc has been received. The CG have more things to do than log yacht passages and safe arrivals. When suitably late to cause concern they send out an all ships (but only after being contacted by a worried relative) to be on lookout and reinforce this if 24 hrs overdue. IIRC they also contacted marinas in Holland to spread the word in case they had diverted.

Sobering thought to realise how long you could be in the cold water before people start looking for you if you don't get off your own mayday. Remember a hand held waterproof VHF is a great safety aid (read MIAB Ouzo tragedy report). As a last resort a text from a mobile (in waterproof case) may get through even if a call can't.

I always do the buddy system eg soon to go on 1 month sailing holiday France CI etc. Obvious risks are rocks around CI and collisions mid channel - remember the Moody a few years ago in collision mid channel with a ship that did not stop/notice. Fortunatly spotted in liferaft by ferry - it was foggy. It does ocassionally happen.

 

[[70521]]

Well, the Mark One eyeball hasn't changed since 1863 at the latest, so there was never a need to update them, was there? In fact, did we need any Colregs in 1863 - the sea was still much the same as in 863...

I didn't have in mind yachts alone when I wrote that. In fact the Colregs have never gone so for so long without major revision since they were first introduced.

The current Secretary General of the IMO agrees with me - but he cannot initiate a call for revision - that has to come from the member states...

Thanks for the clarification Minn

 

[sailorman]

Don't start me...

The International Maritime Organisation is the only UN body based in the UK.

Unfortunately it is run by idiots.

They have screwed up VHF radio; they have screwed up electronic charts; they were thirty years too late with ballast water exchange and they screwed that up too and they have not bothered to overhaul the Colregs since 1972.. despite VHF, despite ARPA, despite AIS - none of which get a mention in the Rules...

My anchor pulled up some pipe weed last w/e

 

[Kukri]

Don't want to put the dampers on this thread but a few words on safety communication and their effect might be informative and start a further discussion on other practices.

See that no one has mentioned a buddy system. Have someone in UK that you can text/e mail/phone your intended passage to and ETA and confirm on arrival. If 4hr trip then I would ask them to call out coast guard after say 4hr overdue if I have not contacted them and they could not contact me. For a channel crossing I would say 6hrs unless wind on the nose then 8hrs. You can judge best.

To put this in perspective a friend lodged passage plan with CG and CG did nothing until we contacted CG after they were overdue. Weather was bad (Holland back to E coast). After contacting CG they put out an all ships to look out for their boat. They turned up in UK but v late due to weather.

The lesson I learnt was CG do not sent out rescues unless a mayday etc has been received. When suitably late to cause concern they send out an all ships to be on lookout and reinforce this if 24 hrs overdue. IIRC they also contacted marinas in Holland to spread the word in case they had diverted.

Sobering thought to realise how long you could be in the cold water before people start looking for you if you don't get off your own mayday. Remember a hand held waterproof VHF is a great safety aid. As a last resort a text from a mobile may get through even if a call can't.

I would not want to rely on a cellphone...

The current PBO contains a review of all the handheld VHFs that incorporate DSC - both of them.

 

[Sailfree]

I would not want to rely on a cellphone...

I agree but there was speculation that the Ouzo might have been in range if someone had a mobile in waterproof case. IIRC about 3 bodies were found with inflated lifejackets and again IIRC some were estimated to have been alive some 20hrs after the collision. I am aware of Falmouth coastguards receiving emergency texts when out of range for a call.

Unfortunatly many sail on a limited budget and the safety equipment on my charter coded boat is probably more expensive that some peoples small yachts but personally I love the thought that people are out there enjoying sailing on a limited budget but hopefully making rational safety judgements. If you can afford it yes get boat DSC, handheld waterproof VHF or DSC, boat flares, self inflating life jacket, mini flares, liferaft etc - we can all argue on the priority but nearly everyone has a mobile and a waterproof case is v cheap and I agree its a last resort safety aid and will not work for probably the middle 30-40mls of channel at all, however i don't think its value should be ignored.

 

[Ru88ell]

I don't think mine is any more difficult than a mobile phone, except the extra step of choosing a working channel. Press "Call", select "Individual", select the station you want to call, select the working channel you want to use, press go.

I have all the South Coast and Channel Island coastguards in my "phonebook". I'd add friends if cruising in company (I think I put yours and Dave's in for the Poole trip, for instance).

Pete

All well and good, but relies on the other person being able to answer it. My radio has been know to go 'beep, beep, beep, etc, etc', and all I can do is look at it, turn it off and back on again to stop it. I've no idea who it was or what they wanted. Even with the massive instruction manual I can't fathom it out. Any piece of kit or software which needs a manual to use is a big fail in my opinion.

 

[[70521]]

Just wondering if it is possible to come up with a more cumbersome system of communicating than this.

It's a wee bit easier than semaphore

 

[[70521]]

we can all argue on the priority but nearly everyone has a mobile and a waterproof case is v cheap and I agree its a last resort safety aid and will not work for probably the middle 30-40mls of channel at all, however i don't think its value should be ignored.

I would ignore it, the signal maths just don't add up, unless you are very, very lucky and a passing Brittany Ferry picks up your signal and pops it up their satellite link.

 

[Sailfree]

I would ignore it, the signal maths just don't add up, unless you are very, very lucky and a passing Brittany Ferry picks up your signal and pops it up their satellite link.

Sorry don't understand your post.

I am saying get all the safety aids you can - which sadly was inadequate for the Ouzo as it appears that could not get off a distress signal before it is assumed they were swamped - but if you end up in the water before getting off a distress signal a waterproof handheld VHF or DSC is your best option plus mini flares plus and in case you are within range of land a mobile in a waterproof cover. For the vast majority of my 1 month summer sailing holiday I am within mobile range of UK/France/CI - it just strikes me a such a simple back up it should not be ignored. Have a UK coastguard station already in your mobiles "contacts" list.

My understanding is that even a waterproof covered mobile may have saved the Ouzo crew that were in the water.

If you are sailing on a shoestring budget then a waterproof case on your mobile may be a lifesaver.

PS bought an i pad last year so that with Navionics app I have a chartplotter backup. At SIB was impressed with demonstration of "lifeproof" covers for i phone & i pad. He was repeatedly dropping i phone in bucket of water and then onto concrete floor. Bought them for both but refuse to demonstrate them but in lst year I have now stupidly dropped i phone 3 times and it has survived, no cracked screens or anything. Waterproof covers are good but they still sink in water if you drop them!

 

[Ru88ell]

At SIB was impressed with demonstration of "lifeproof" covers for i phone & i pad. He was reapeatedly dropping i phone in bucket of water and then onto concrete floor. Bought them for both but refuse to demonstrate them but in lst year I have now stupidly dropped i phone 3 times and it has survived, no cracked screens or anything. Waterproof covers are good but they still sink in water if you drop them!

+1 for Lifeproof.

 

[lustyd]

I would not want to rely on a cellphone...

The current PBO contains a review of all the handheld VHFs that incorporate DSC - both of them.

Those are designed to contact the boat you fell of off. They are next to useless for contacting anyone else because the transmission height is about 0.5m. They are also currently next to useless because they are too big to have with you when you fall in. I have the SH one and love it to bits (never use the fixed set) but I don't think it will ultimately help me much other than calling people and querying location. It is handy that on a mayday I can use the DSC call to plot a waypoint and navigate to it without going below though.

 

[Kukri]

Those are designed to contact the boat you fell of off. They are next to useless for contacting anyone else because the transmission height is about 0.5m. They are also currently next to useless because they are too big to have with you when you fall in. I have the SH one and love it to bits (never use the fixed set) but I don't think it will ultimately help me much other than calling people and querying location. It is handy that on a mayday I can use the DSC call to plot a waypoint and navigate to it without going below though.

Quite a handy bit of kit to have should you find yourself short of a mast or in a liferaft - of course an EPIRB is better.

 

[[70521]]

Sorry don't understand your post.

Sorry, I was being a bit geeky! I was picking up on your statement that as a very last line of resort a mobile phone in a waterproof bag might just work if you were in the drink mid channel.

The theoretical maximum distance for a mobile phone signal is about 35km (19nm) which might just reach a cell phone mast ashore depending where in the channel you are bobbing about in your lifejacket? This depends on ideal weather conditions as rain will reduce a signal and wave hight might also have an impact; I am pretty sure that no research has been done on that topic.

I am currently Devon based therefore the Channel is a just wee bit wider than 40nm hence the Brittany Ferry comment as they have a satellite uplink so you can call home from onboard ship and this may pick up your signal if they were close enough.

So all in all I am saying it is really not worth considering it. A handheld VHF in a waterproof bag will be a little more usefull as you might be able to call that big tanker just before it runs over you and unless you have the skippers number there is no way you can do that with your iPhone.

Perhaps an interesting experiment would be for sombody to:

a) call home every hour and see how far off shore they could get a signal (I usually get a signal up to the Eddistone and again about 5nm from the French coast); and

b) text home and see how that works.

 

[Sailfree]

The theoretical maximum distance for a mobile phone signal is about 35km (19nm) which might just reach a cell phone mast ashore depending where in the channel you are bobbing about in your lifejacket? This depends on ideal weather conditions as rain will reduce a signal and wave hight might also have an impact; I am pretty sure that no research has been done on that topic.

I am currently Devon based therefore the Channel is a just wee bit wider than 40nm hence the Brittany Ferry comment as they have a satellite uplink so you can call home from onboard ship and this may pick up your signal if they were close enough.

I think we are in agreement but viewing it from different areas of sailing. This summer I sail for a month doing Solent - Cherbourg - CI - St Malo - N Brittany - Carteret - Solent. From previous experience of receiving texts from vodaphone France and CI's I know I am able to send texts from everwhere except the middle say 45ml of the channel. French signal is good because they mount coastal masts so high! So in a whole month of sailing say 744hrs I will not be able to text for 15hrs.

I emphasis its a last resort method but I think the above puts it in perspective from my sailing area point of view and hence a waterproof "lifeproof" case for my i phone.