BabaYaga
Well-known member
You are totally wrong, batteries are useless as anchors.It seems batteries are the new anchors....
Dual purpose batteries or hybrid batteries?
- Thread starter Humblebee
- Start date
MarkCX
Active member
Not sure I fully agree. Primitive anchors were just rocks on a bit of rope. A big battery might work just as well in some situations. ?
rotrax
Well-known member
Lifeline AGM ... very nice.
Remind me again how much each battery costs?
Was it 3x or 4x the cost of a regular leisure battery?
About the same when you take into account their long life.
The technology is available from cheaper suppliers.
I am running a low cost version as a genset starter battery alongside the others as a comparison.
I thought the discussion was about dedicated starter batteries against deep discharge batteries/leisure batteries.
As an aside, i had a customer who had a Honda 70. It was little used, a 6V model, I MOT'ed it every year for a long time.
It was over twenty years old and the OE Yuasa was still giving good service.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
Sigh !
A cheap and nasty car battery is a starter battery., a calcium SLA battery is a starter battery, an ECM battery is a starter battery, an AGM stop/start battery is a starter battery, and a leisure battery is also a starter battery. They are all starter batteries, but they are clearly all different in some way or another. The cheap and nasty car battery might only have 2 or 3 cycles at deep discharge, a quality AGM will be totally different.
None of the above are deep cycle batteries. You cannot create a battery that is one of the above and a deep cycle battery in the same package. That's what the OP is about.
One more time:
There is no such thing as a marine battery.
There is no such thing as a hybrid battery, in as much as it cannot be one of the above and a deep cycle in one package.
There is no such thing as a dual purpose battery, in as much as it cannot be one of the above and a deep cycle in one package.
A leisure battery is a starter battery. It has some additional plate support etc and is suitable as an engine starting battery on a boat and for domestic use too. It is not a deep cycle battery ( no matter what the label might say and no matter what the advert says) and it most certainly isn't a starter battery and a deep cycle battery in one package.
I could spend the rest of the week posting links to batteries that are misdescribed, some adverts are just plain untrue. They might be manufacturers adverts, they might be retailers.
lw395
Well-known member
But it wasn't required to deliver any starting amps, or do much in the way of deep discharge high capacity...
OTOH, Yuasa is usually a good choice for anything with two wheels...
[2068]
...
Great stuff.
So back to the original question, you have a boat that has two batteries that start an engine and that also have to act as a domestic power source.
Do you buy batteries optimised for starting, leisure batteries, or fancy AGM batteries that are 3x the cost?
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Rappey
Well-known member
And 4 wheels, and boats and now the space station.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
The original question was "what is the difference between a hybrid battery and a dual purpose one "
I answered that in post #3.
The answer to your new question is also in post #3
BabaYaga
Well-known member
OK, getting a bit clearer now.
Unlike in January, when apparently 'starter battery' = 'cheap and nasty car battery', you are now using 'starter battery' as some kind of meta category for several types of batteries.
More confusing than helpful, IMHO.
Your main point seems to be that deep cycle batteries are something different from those mentioned in the quote above. But I can not see that anyone has challenged this, I certainly have not.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
If you are unable to understand, perhaps you should go somewhere and learn. Everyone else in the thread seems to have grasped it.
Personally, i'm not wasting any more time with your trolling posts.
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Please stop going on splitting hairs - its painful....... and is everything I dont like about YBW
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
I would put 2 of the same, so running in parallel whist charging is relatively equal. Therefore it would be a pair of batteries with a less CAA and more capable of 50% cycles..... Perhaps the weight of the battery will tell you which would be more suitable (heavier = best?) other than the rubbish printed on the wholesalers sites!
Jokani
Active member
Interestingly, maybe, I mistakenly purchased T105 Dual Purpose batteries from a popular online retailer, thinking that were Deep Cycle, as that was the way they were advertised, I spoke with an engineer from Trojan in the US, they explained that the Dual Purpose would only have a life expectancy a third of that of a truly Deep Cycle battery, when used in a leisure bank discharging down to 50% at times. I got this in writing from Trojan, and after some debate the online retailer agreed I could return at their cost, and then replace with true Deep Cycle batteries.
Mistroma
Well-known member
I used to ask people who were looking for a "marine battery if they wanted a car start, lorry start or deep cycle "marine" battery. I used to see lots of "leisure batteries" which were actually lorry start batteries.
Your list was more detailed, less jokey but not something I'd argue about in any way.
Of course deep-cycle aren't usually "true deep-cycle" (whatever that means, industrial perhaps cycling down to 20%?) but they would cost an arm and a leg vs. something like a T-105 which is good enough for most people. Cheap solar means that there's usually no need to cycle batteries deeply very often anyway.
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Mistroma
Well-known member
It will be interesting to find out how much "true deep-cycle batteries" cost. T-105 batteries are good enough for regular cycling on golf-carts. and similar. I think that Trojan give approx. 1,500 cycles to 50% and back in a perfect system. Many people accept that 800 cycles is more likely on a boat.
I imagine the next step up from T-105s would be industrial things used to power fork-lifts and similar. Very thick plates (perhap almost solid lead) and very heavy. Perhaps you are moving completely away from lead acid to get better really deep cycling performance.
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temptress
Well-known member
So we live on the hook and can often go 6 ,8 or months or more without any access to sorepower.
We have 2 battery banks. A 110ah hell battery for the engine....used only for engine starting and 3 deep cycle batteries for domestics. (i use good old fashioned lead acid batteries a that o top up.with water every 7or 8 months or so)
I can start te engine from the domestic bank..they just don't notice the engine starting. I have tries all sorts of batteries over the years and find this the best compromise for cost and efficiency
If you have space in would recommend having a small cranking battery for the engine and one or more largish deep cycle batteries. I have the engine starting and battery on their own circuits and when needed use a dual selector switch to connect the two.
use a vsr and a smart regulator....
ditchcrawler
Well-known member
I have used 2 no Numax sealed 110 a/h batteries as my domestics and they lasted 8 seasons doing normal day sailing, a few weekends and probably a longer trip once a year. I replaced them with the same 2 years ago.
I do have a Red flash which I use to start the engine from cold. I still have the 1/2/both switch which I like (hiss boo) and when the engine has run I use the Numax domestics to start the engine so I don't have to go below to switch over.
I tried a VSR but it didn't work .(Another story)
So my domestics do a bit of engine starting when the engine is warm and they have coped well.
I do have a Red flash which I use to start the engine from cold. I still have the 1/2/both switch which I like (hiss boo) and when the engine has run I use the Numax domestics to start the engine so I don't have to go below to switch over.
I tried a VSR but it didn't work .(Another story)
So my domestics do a bit of engine starting when the engine is warm and they have coped well.
TernVI
Well-known member
I've got a couple of 100Ah batteries came out of vans in a scrapyard. They've been taken down to 10V a few times due to stuff going wrong. So far they still do the job, start the Beta engine, run the nav lights across the channel. They are branded 'Lucas and Varta.
[2068]
...
So anyway I have followed my own recommendation.
These are relabelled Atlas-BX / Hankook batteries from what I can tell, manufactured in Korea..
Yes, they are variations on starter batteries.
Yes, they will most likely die if repeatedly deep discharged.
Yes, I will probably end up binning them after 5 years or so.
No, there is no space to fit anything other than Group 27 Batteries.
Leisure XDC Battery - Hankook AtlasBX
Leisure DC Battery - Hankook AtlasBX
Two of these for Starboard Engine Start and Domestics:
Plus two of these for Port Engine Start:
These are relabelled Atlas-BX / Hankook batteries from what I can tell, manufactured in Korea..
Yes, they are variations on starter batteries.
Yes, they will most likely die if repeatedly deep discharged.
Yes, I will probably end up binning them after 5 years or so.
No, there is no space to fit anything other than Group 27 Batteries.
Leisure XDC Battery - Hankook AtlasBX
Leisure DC Battery - Hankook AtlasBX
Two of these for Starboard Engine Start and Domestics:
Plus two of these for Port Engine Start:
peter gibbs
Active member
A starter battery - 70 amph will both start your engine and light your lights. A so called deep cycling /services battery will do the same. The difference, as we all find out sooner or later, is how long they go on doing their thing.
A starter battery takes a short heavy drain and is quickly restored - just like on a car delivers over several seasons.
A service battery of say, 120 amph, can take a drain down to half charge, and restore without loss, also for some seasons.
That's why we have two different types of battery - because that's the way to get the best out of a battery supply. There are other technologies but that's what they are, and almost always they costs quite a lot more / amph than wet batteries.
Most of us have read the energetic "tests" carried out by magazines etc. I can read no more - they all say the same but all relate to short term test use, not over several seasons - for obvious reasons,
PWG
A starter battery takes a short heavy drain and is quickly restored - just like on a car delivers over several seasons.
A service battery of say, 120 amph, can take a drain down to half charge, and restore without loss, also for some seasons.
That's why we have two different types of battery - because that's the way to get the best out of a battery supply. There are other technologies but that's what they are, and almost always they costs quite a lot more / amph than wet batteries.
Most of us have read the energetic "tests" carried out by magazines etc. I can read no more - they all say the same but all relate to short term test use, not over several seasons - for obvious reasons,
PWG
