Dropping or keeping old traditions

[dunedin]

Locking turns - ok on shore cleats but never on board my boat - learn to cleat properly! Figure of 8s - never on spinnaker haliards, sheets or guys - crew is more valuable than a sail. Ensign between sunset/08.00 to sunset/21.00 whichever is earlier - what's the point of having a blue if you don't show it off?

Again interesting how different boats need different rules. Never even occurred to me that anybody would be referring to either OXO or locking turns on sheets or halyards. Having self tailing sheet winches and rope stoppers on all halyards there are no “cleats“ anywhere near any of our sheets or halyards - but agree entirely with your suggested rule on a boat equipped with such cleats.
And I off my hat to your blue, our red ensign does get taken down overnight also. (My white Saltire ensign is not yet ready to fly

 

[Mudisox]

Hourly writing up logs and positions on a paper chart [albeit mostly out of date} -yes, what else passes the time and makes one think.
Passage plans etc - use what you have.
Stopper knots -yes, tying up ropes on cleats - depends on use and load.

 

[Stemar]

How are you going to heave to with the Spinnaker up?

A bit like this?

 

[Dutch01527]

Could you define what you mean by 'fully updated'? Does that mean that Navionics has updated everything the same day as the UKHO issues a NtM?

No, of course not, that is being silly. It means that they have been updated by a professional team of people as soon as reasonably possible. The same as paper charts on a professional commercial ship are updated by the navigating officers as soon as they can be. Contrast this with lesuire paper charts, I would be will to bet that 90% are over 10 years old and have never been updated.

 

[awol]

And I off my hat to your blue, our red ensign does get taken down overnight also. (My white Saltire ensign is not yet ready to fly

"Fly" - surely you mean "wear"? Kudos to your ensign etiquette. Such things set us apart from the ignorant and/or lazy.

 

[Poignard]

Some people do love having rules and regulations to obey.

Can't think why they don't join the Navy.

 

[Dutch01527]

MAIB and dibble may be interested in the event of an incident if you do not maintain a log and carry a passage plan; those are required items. Brevity is a virtue when writing them though.

I have both a passage plan and log electronically, on multiple different devices updated automatically. There is also no requirement for boats under 150 tons to keep a log or have a paper passage plan, however I would always have a plan and a record of my track.

Views like this wildly held and support my initial view that we have with the best intentions carried over best practices from the big ships with little thought as to their neccecity in the modern world.

 

[Daydream believer]

Couple of those cases in that video shows how silly it was to let the sheets fly in the first case. The crew have lost total control of the sail.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Couple of those cases in that video shows how silly it was to let the sheets fly in the first case. The crew have lost total control of the sail.

And more than a couple show the consequences of a boat pinned by an out of control spinnaker, those with the kite flying from the masthead were at least upright and are in control of the boat if not the sail although it could be said that the sail can be easily retrieved.

 

[tillergirl]

Can asked what you might consider a reasonable period by say, C-Map or Navionics?

 

[awol]

A bit like this?

Thank you! I enjoyed those, especially the 2nd one with the rudder and the crew doing absolutely nothing! Roll on next season.

 

[doug748]

Many of the methods of operation that were mandated either by law or operating procedures in Royal or Merchant Navy ships have passed down to small lesuire craft as best practice for seaman like operations.

Despite being schooled the traditional way and understanding that some people take satisfaction in the traditional ways I find that I have dropped many activities that I do not judge to add value e.g.

Use of paper charts ( have them onboard as back up)
Hourly fixes
Keeping a ships log
Passage planning using chart and tide tables
Always hoisting the ensign dawn to dusk in UK waters - mainly because the damm thing flapps around my head with a stern wind
Calibrating the compass

I am not convinced that any of the above have diminished the safety or seaman like integrity of the boat. I do accept that not knowing how to do them if required would be inappropriate. Any views?

I still do most of that stuff, and the locking turns.

Charts are just nicer to use, in the same way physical books are. Plotters are great for navigation but glaring at a screen is no way to plan and sort out what you a doing tomorrow. Looking at charts is one sailing's best small pleasures.

.

 

[Dutch01527]

Well more than puzzled , by the ref to paper charts

Surely if not carrying paper charts how is one able to respond to anything thats outside of ones own charted passage plans ? Like a Pan Pan or even an SOS then ?

Not using paper charts is different from not carrying them. However, I would suggest that it is much quicker and equally as accurate to enter a position contained in a distress call into Navionics and ask for a course and bearing to that location and possibly start a route to take you there. The charts are downloaded in advance onto the devices you are using. They are fully available with or without a network signal and are updated automatically. The device know your position constantly accurate to a few metres.

 

[Dutch01527]

Can asked what you might consider a reasonable period by say, C-Map or Navionics?

I guess it depends on location. A major navigation hazard in busy waters I would hope within weeks. A new small bouy in a non hazardous location in a remote location within months. I have no idea how long updates take to roll out in reality but would be interested to learn.

 

[Dutch01527]

I still do most of that stuff, and the locking turns.

Charts are just nicer to use, in the same way physical books are. Plotters are great for navigation but glaring at a screen is no way to plan and sort out what you a doing tomorrow. Looking at charts is one sailing's best small pleasures.

.

A very good reason to stick to the traditional ways for many people. For me I feel a satisfaction from innovation and change. Different folks etc.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Couple of those cases in that video shows how silly it was to let the sheets fly in the first case. The crew have lost total control of the sail.

Couple of those cases in that video shows how silly it was to let the sheets fly in the first case. The crew have lost total control of the sail.

I don’t think that’s a valid criticism and leads to any reasonable conclusions as the incidents are all in yacht racing. Furthermore you can’t imagine how much worse some of those incidents might have been had the lines jambed up against stopper knots.

 

[dunedin]

"Fly" - surely you mean "wear"? Kudos to your ensign etiquette. Such things set us apart from the ignorant and/or lazy.

You are correct that we “wear” the red ensign - I suspect that term would cause a few arm-chair admirals to choke on the G&T if used for a white background Saltire ;-)

 

[dunedin]

I guess it depends on location. A major navigation hazard in busy waters I would hope within weeks. A new small bouy in a non hazardous location in a remote location within months. I have no idea how long updates take to roll out in reality but would be interested to learn.

Well I was surprised to discover that UKHO only issues updates to its electronic chart data to leisure chart publishers (Navionics, C Map etc) every 3 months or so. Hence, even if their source database is updated timeously, it may be months before you see on your chart plotter.

 

[awol]

You are correct that we “wear” the red ensign - I suspect that term would cause a few arm-chair admirals to choke on the G&T if used for a white background Saltire ;-)

I'm wondering what form the Scottish white ensign would take. Presumably the saltire occupying a quarter of the field and placed in the canton but what of the other 3/4? Totally white? Having a red cross would be an anathema to many.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Well I was surprised to discover that UKHO only issues updates to its electronic chart data to leisure chart publishers (Navionics, C Map etc) every 3 months or so. Hence, even if their source database is updated timeously, it may be months before you see on your chart plotter.

Although Admiralty Chart Corrections were published every week how often did sailors correct their charts, I didn't and surprisingly I never hit a bit of hard stuff that had changed position.