Dragging of anchors

[vyv_cox]

My informal surveys agree with vic's. Delta is by far the most common anchor in the Ionian and Aegean because virtually every charter boat is equipped with them. Other than charter boats, our base marina in Leros has perhaps a higher proportion of French boats than many others as a result of management's fluency in their language. The vast majority of these boats carry Spades, some smaller boats have Kobras. There are some Bugels, as might be expected particularly on German boats, but nowhere near the majority. Most UK boats and plenty of others carry Rocnas. Some Ultras are seen, often on Turkish boats where they are cheaper to buy.

I swore by my 35lb Delta for years until it failed to set successively three times during a microburst storm in Vliho Bay. It was replaced with a 15 kg Rocna but fortunately that has not been tested in the same conditions. I still carry the Delta, unused since.

 

[ribrage]

. I still carry the Delta, unused since.

Difficult to store - more difficult to throw away - I had the same thing with that old CQR , knew I could repair it , might be of use ETC - the old fisherman I gave it too is still bringing us fish !

 

[JumbleDuck]

But the market for modern anchors is huge, most yachts simply do not have one.

Presumably because, despite the zealotry flying around, most yacht owners are perfectly happy with what they have got.

Owners of modern anchors are universally pleased to have changed from a pre-modern model and so far not one has suggested they would go back

Of course not. They work very well and in any case selection bias generally ensures that those affected by confirmation bias are most likely to report satisfaction with a major investment.

But - how often does this need to be said? - for many people a suitable sized and properly used older style of anchor is good enough. This particular discussion about anchors is rather like discussions about hi-fi. There is always someone who will argue that you can't possibly enjoy the quality of what you have, and people who spend a fortune on interconnects are predisposed to hear an improvement.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Hi Jonathan
Firstly, it is very rare to find boats with a CQR in the MED no matter what the small portion of people says here, CQR are not popular with cruisers or it's seen by most people these days,
You are more likely to see a CQR holding bar doors open,
You just need to take a look at what people have on their bow.

I'll guess that that is because most boats in the Med are newish, because a new CQR costs more than a new Spade and because there is not, even if people wanted them, the good supply of cheap second hand CQRs that there is in the UK.

 

[sailaboutvic]

There are some reviews on the web for Mansons Boss anchor , we did some research before replacing a cracked CQR with a new anchor , we were quite restricted on fitment without making major changes to our fore deck and bow roller as we have a twin anchor set up and the anchors are staggered on separate bow rollers, we were happy to try the Boss, having used it for half the summer ,it was a good decision , sets quick , holds well , fits in the space of the old CQR pretty well - happy customerView attachment 53531 we hadn't had massive issues with our CQR (apart from the cracked shank), we still have one at the bow as you can see in the picture , we also carry a BIG old fishermans anchor which we used a few times in Ibiza and a fortress FX 55 that we used in San Javier Mar menor as a forked set up in a blow , like others have said , relying on one make and one model isn't a great idea, better to have options.

Ribrage
Just out of curiosity,
How often have you used the CQR since you had the mansion?
Are you keeping the CQR because it's costing you nothing to keep and it's handy in case you need another anchor.
If you are keeping, it has a second anchor, if money is no object, would you replace it for a modem more reliable anchor?
Or would you just keep the CQR because you feel it does the job you want it to do ?

I am asking out of interest, no trick question.
Cheers

 

[vyv_cox]

Difficult to store - more difficult to throw away - I had the same thing with that old CQR , knew I could repair it , might be of use ETC - the old fisherman I gave it too is still bringing us fish !

The main reason I kept it was that a long time ago, before I knew anything at all about swivels and connectors, mine failed and we lost our anchor (the same Delta) for 24 hours. I doubt very much that this would happen again but just in case......

 

[ribrage]

Ribrage
Just out of curiosity,
How often have you used the CQR since you had the mansion?
Are you keeping the CQR because it's costing you nothing to keep and it's handy in case you need another anchor.
If you are keeping, it has a second anchor, if money is no object, would you replace it for a modem more reliable anchor?
Or would you just keep the CQR because you feel it does the job you want it to do ?

I am asking out of interest, no trick question.
Cheers

Vic - In answer to your question , we haven't used the CQR since fitting the new anchor , mainly because we haven't needed too , but also because the 70 meters of chain its attached to partially sits ontop of the fifty meters of chain the CQR is attached too, the twin anchors in the bow rollers, gives us the ability to drop both anchors in a V without resorting to dinghys or any other deck work involving rope and chain , its how she was built and I quite like it.

I could replace (and may) replace the secondary anchor with another Boss once Im happy its been abused and stood the test of time.

If money was no object I would alter the bow sprit , replace it with stainless as Im pee'd off painting it , other than that, the twin roller , twin anchors are a nice to have feature, IF we had an anchor break free or IF we were to drag , the second anchor is ready to go ,just loosen the clutch on the windlass and over the side it rolls.

The CQR has without question saved this yacht from a watery grave at anchor on Il de Yeu , long story ,but a busy anchorage turned into an empty anchorage in the four hours we had gone ashore to get provisions , the beach was so bad I didn't think we would get off of it in our RIB , the dog ran away rather than get in , we had two life jackets auto inflate getting over the breakers, the bow of the yacht was dipping in the waves in the distance and the French life boat was out pulling one boat off the rocks already.

Two lessons learned that day:

Firstly : Always pay out more chain than you think you need , Id put out everything as we were furthest from the beach and it was busy, maybe 40 boats and a good forecast- NO squalls expected, if Id gone 6:1 scope maybe Id be homeless now.
Secondly: Mid ships ladder - we would NEVER have gotten onto our swim platform, it was either 4 feet in the air or a foot under water, so we now make sure our mid ships ladder is down when we go ashore.

 

[ribrage]

The main reason I kept it was that a long time ago, before I knew anything at all about swivels and connectors, mine failed and we lost our anchor (the same Delta) for 24 hours. I doubt very much that this would happen again but just in case......

Yes I did have a cursory look at mainstream swivels for yachts when I put this new anchor on - HOW expensive (ouch) - decided to borrow one from work instead, totally over sized and engineered for what I need but we use them then scrap them at work and I like free - EDIT - Im going to remove the swivel soon , see if it makes any difference.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic - In answer to your question , we haven't used the CQR since fitting the new anchor , mainly because we haven't needed too , but also because the 70 meters of chain its attached to partially sits ontop of the fifty meters of chain the CQR is attached too, the twin anchors in the bow rollers, gives us the ability to drop both anchors in a V without resorting to dinghys or any other deck work involving rope and chain , its how she was built and I quite like it.

I could replace (and may) replace the secondary anchor with another Boss once Im happy its been abused and stood the test of time.

If money was no object I would alter the bow sprit , replace it with stainless as Im pee'd off painting it , other than that, the twin roller , twin anchors are a nice to have feature, IF we had an anchor break free or IF we were to drag , the second anchor is ready to go ,just loosen the clutch on the windlass and over the side it rolls.

The CQR has without question saved this yacht from a watery grave at anchor on Il de Yeu , long story ,but a busy anchorage turned into an empty anchorage in the four hours we had gone ashore to get provisions , the beach was so bad I didn't think we would get off of it in our RIB , the dog ran away rather than get in , we had two life jackets auto inflate getting over the breakers, the bow of the yacht was dipping in the waves in the distance and the French life boat was out pulling one boat off the rocks already.

Two lessons learned that day:

Firstly : Always pay out more chain than you think you need , Id put out everything as we were furthest from the beach and it was busy, maybe 40 boats and a good forecast- NO squalls expected, if Id gone 6:1 scope maybe Id be homeless now.
Secondly: Mid ships ladder - we would NEVER have gotten onto our swim platform, it was either 4 feet in the air or a foot under water, so we now make sure our mid ships ladder is down when we go ashore.

Thanks for the reply , good honsty answer ,
Very happy the CQR saved the day for you , I find it very sad seeming yacht beached .
if we are going to be away from the boat, for any time, and there any sign of weather, out goes the fortress, even if it risers eye from other people, better safe then sorry.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I'll guess that that is because most boats in the Med are newish, because a new CQR costs more than a new Spade and because there is not, even if people wanted them, the good supply of cheap second hand CQRs that there is in the UK.

{I'll guess that that is because most boats in the Med are newish}

I would agree there are a lot of newish boats In the Med, each year more and more , we can thank the charter market for that , but they're also a lot of old once too , I would also say you are more likely to see a CQR on a very older type boat.
That's not to say older sailor think they are better , or I would have one .

{ a new CQR costs more than a new Spade }

I couldn't say,
I have no idea what a new CQR cost, but my 20kgs Rocna cost me 500 euros two years ago.
I brought the Rocna not because of the name, I spend years talking to people about their anchors and did a lot of research , my first choice would had been a Manson as I have said.


{ because there is not, even if people wanted them, the good supply of cheap second hand CQRs that there is in the UK.}

There was three up for sale last winter in Lefkas, when we left in March they were still up for sale, each asking 25 euros.
The year before in Licata again there were some for sale one in the end was given to the bar which was painted and used out side, another left on the pontoon.

Maybe if there such a big demand for them back home in the UK I might starting buying them up and sending them back .
I could do with a way of funding my cruising .

 

[vyv_cox]

Yes I did have a cursory look at mainstream swivels for yachts when I put this new anchor on - HOW expensive (ouch) - decided to borrow one from work instead, totally over sized and engineered for what I need but we use them then scrap them at work and I like free - EDIT - Im going to remove the swivel soon , see if it makes any difference.

Bit of a thread drift here, but last season we decided to go swivel-free when various people questioned the need for one. Overall we managed OK but we thought the chain twisting that we always suffer was worse and the windlass showed signs of displeasure. Occasionally the anchor would come up facing the wrong way, still don't understand how that can happen, which takes a lot more sorting than if there is a swivel.

So for 2015 I decided to go back to a swivel but thought I would assess the Osculati cranked version. This is massively strong and is designed to always place the anchor at the correct orientation. It proved to be very disappointing, wedging itself against the shackle sometimes, where it prevented the anchor from setting, which dragged. Also, it didn't seem to rotate the anchor into the correct orientation. We have now reverted to the Kong with three chain links and all is restored to our previous satisfactory situation.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We have now reverted to the Kong with three chain links and all is restored to our previous satisfactory situation.

One job for this winter , changing my swivel to a kong and add chain before it .

 

[NormanS]

As some here will know, I have never seen the need for a swivel, but I would love to know from swivel users, how do you train your swivel to bring the anchor up to the bow roller in the correct orientation?

I use a bent link, which ALWAYS ensures that the anchor comes up the right way.

 

[sailaboutvic]

As some here will know, I have never seen the need for a swivel, but I would love to know from swivel users, how do you train your swivel to bring the anchor up to the bow roller in the correct orientation?

I use a bent link, which ALWAYS ensures that the anchor comes up the right way.

No idea Norman , still trying to work that one out , but it a lot easly to turn the anchor with a swivel , at time leaving it just touching the water and going Into rev does the job .
But you have to be quick getting it up the last bit , co skipper has a better knack of doing it them me .
I just use a pole .
Sorry we drifted again .

 

[Neeves]

Educational thread drift is good for the soul.

Norman +1

We use a Boomerang, returns the anchor the right way up - every time. Its based on a thread of 12 months ago (?) in which you described (there might have been a picture of) your device, bent stainless rod with rings welded on the end. The development here is to cut from Bis 80 with shackle holes at each end, so no welding. But like yours, no moving parts.

And there was me naively thinking that summarising usage of modern anchors could be non contentious!

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

Educational thread drift is good for the soul.

Norman +1

We use a Boomerang, returns the anchor the right way up - every time. Its based on a thread of 12 months ago (?) in which you described (there might have been a picture of) your device, bent stainless rod with rings welded on the end. The development here is to cut from Bis 80 with shackle holes at each end, so no welding. But like yours, no moving parts.

And there was me naively thinking that summarising usage of modern anchors could be non contentious!

Jonathan

Non contentious , Jonathan , ah , you:re having a laugh .
Every time we invite guest on board or we get inviting on someone else boat someone alway bring up anchoring. I not sure how many time I have promise my better half we won't talk about it, someone start it off , it must be the most talked about subject amount us Liveaboard .
Last time the ladies took bets how long it would be before the conversation came around to i
And on that note , I have an anchor that need checking .

 

[JumbleDuck]

{ a new CQR costs more than a new Spade }

I couldn't say,
I have no idea what a new CQR cost, but my 20kgs Rocna cost me 500 euros two years ago.

A new 20kg CQR will set you back a cool £839.95 (http://www.force4.co.uk/lewmar-cqr-anchor-galvanised-20kg-44lb.html) and that's discounted by almost a hundred quid from the MRP. If I had that money to spend on an anchor, I wouldn't buy a CQR. Mind you, I wouldn't buy a Rocna either.

 

[JumbleDuck]

We use a Boomerang, returns the anchor the right way up - every time.

One of the nice things about the CQR is that it invariably stows itself on my bow roller the right way.

And there was me naively thinking that summarising usage of modern anchors could be non contentious!

With all due respect, you weren't doing that. You were asking for saved sinners (hallelujah) to stand up (praise the Lord) and testify to their salvation (glory glory). For about the nineteenth time.

Yours, sunk in sin,

JD

 

[JumbleDuck]

And on that note , I have an anchor that need checking .

Should have bought a CQR, then ...

 

[sailaboutvic]

Should have bought a CQR, then ...

Very funny .
But I can confirm all is well .
Three days now In wind gusting 40 kts at times I think the only problem , I am going to have is getting it out .