Don't wait too long ..

Sybarite

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Don\'t wait too long ..

When I look at UK new and second hand boat prices I consider them to be high compared with French prices. I often wonder then why people don’t broaden their search when they are making such a big investment as is a boat. I notice on the threads when somebody is asking for advice about a boat it usully concerns a UK built one.
Maybe it is universal knocking of Bénéteau and Jeanneau which are putting people off. In their defense, Beneteau has been around since 1884 and you don’t become the N° 1 in anything by selling rubbish. They started off by building trawlers and the time since the move to pleasure boats represents only about a quarter of their existence.

However if one still doesn’t like these, there is still a host of other smaller manufacturers of quality boats.

What motivates this mail however is that I was listening on the radio to a French currency guru I know who was the head of a forex department of a major French bank. He is forecasting that the euro will continue to rise from its present level of $1.10 to $1.50 (having already come back from $0.87) by the end of 2004. He justifies this by saying that the major Asian banks whose current forex portfolios are about 90% in dollars want to get a better risk spread between euros and dollars and are starting to sell their dollars.

I had previously heard that large European insurance groups like Axa and Ing wanted to do the same.

Depending on what the pound does in all of this - if you miss the boat about adopting the euro - you might miss the boat about getting the bargains that currently exist in France.

John



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warrior40

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

You are correct in this matter, I went to France last year to look at a boat, there are plenty of Moodys and Westerlys knocking around at a fraction of UK prices because the French aren't keen to buy them. As an Instance, I was looking at a couple of Westerly Fulmars, both around £22K, it is astonishing to note that some owners over here are asking in excess of £40K for a similar boat of same age and condition, You can buy a 30' Dufour Arpege for around 5-7K whilst over here they appear to fetch 11-14K. I am amazed at the bargains to be had over there, reading through their excellent buy a boat publications, you can take your pick! The frogs I have contacted have actually been quite a friendly bunch too, even though they are frogs.

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sailbadthesinner

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Re: what is the catch?

i cannot believe some of the prices expected by owners over here, especially in relation to the quality of some of the offerings.
do you have any broker details of sites in france?
i have only schoolboy french at my disposal

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extravert

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

I don't think there is much problem with a low opinion of foreign boats in this country. Many boats sailed here are foreign, especially recent ones. Of course there are some who will complain, but there are a lot of Benteaux, Jeanneaux, Bavarias and X-Yachts here. I think there are other reasons why people are reluctant to buy boats from abroad. I have just done this, and this is what I found...

Finding a boat abroad is time consuming and expensive. I have been on 3 trips to Scandinavia recently in the process of buying a boat from Sweden. People have recently discussed on this forum of the disappointment of travelling to view second hand boats to find they are nothing like they expected and are in poor condition. Imagine the discouragement people feel if they travel abroad and are similarly disappointed.

There is always a small charge on exchanging currency, may be only a small percentage on a large amount, but it adds to the cost.

Transport from abroad is very expensive if a boat comes on a lorry, because of ferry charges. My recently bought boat came back from Sweden and transport cost £2600. My old one looks like it is going to Sweden, and transport for that is over £4000.

So adding all the costs, say for a £20k boat (3 trips abroad £750, £500 for currency exchange, £3000 for transport), the extra costs can add 10% to 20% to the price. Suddenly the bargain foreign prices don't add up.

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ericw

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Oxymoron !

John,

May I cordially suggest that based upon my experience (including a number of years in Paris) that your quote :

"a French currency guru I know who was the head of a forex department of a major French bank"

is somewhat of an oxymoron !

I also know a supposed French equity 'guru' who is predicting the Dow Jones to be at 1000 in the next 3 years (obvious misunderstanding of how an index is calculated).

Having met a number of French heads of trading at the annual foreign exchange market conventions, I can confirm that the main reason they are employed at French institutions is because they have been overlooked by the premier US/UK institutions. They are often capable of spouting more 'm£rde' than even Monsieur le President, which is quite some achievement !!

I shall not get into predicting foreign exchange rates since that could be viewed as offering investment advice by some, but would concur that buying a boat abroad in certain circumstances can offer benefits vs. buying in the UK, as is the case with cars.

Kind regards,

Francophile Eric (and yes, I am going to my French best mate's birthday bash tomorrow !)

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Roberto

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Oh, gurus...

I work in capital markets too, only thing I learned if there had ever been a guru capable to say what the cable (snobby slang for usdgbp rate) will be just tomorrow (not to speak of a few months), he would surely have already left the job and be spending a very rich-very early retirement in some south pacific island. If not, I doubt (s)he is a guru, or even with the slightest amount of brain. Another oxymoron maybe?

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Sybarite

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Re: Oh, gurus...

Dear oh dear how we can be cynical!

This person is the one that "France Info" normally interviews on subjects relating to currency. He now has his own firm. When I dealt with him in my capacity as controller of the largest British group in France (at that time), he always impressed me by his astuteness.

In relation to Ericw's remark about French guru's being only those who aren't employed by US/UK banks I would prefer to consider that he is just trying to take the p*ss.

John



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ericw

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Re: Oh, gurus...

John,

You are correct in your assumption !

Didn't mean to deflect attention away from what is a very valid point you make in the initial posting.

I'll keep certain views to myself, but I have endured my fair share of 'Rosbif' bashing in my time - they're still good friends though !!

Regards,

E.

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Sybarite

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USEFUL SITES

http://www.nautargusonline.fr/nautargus/cote_officielle/recherche.htm?sid=3005&cat=2 (Second hand "official" prices)

http://www.monbateau.com/nautargus_online/

http://www.europ-yachting.com/intro.php3

http://www.bateauxonline.fr/bateaux/evenements/annuaire/index.htm?rubrique=pro

www.cornouaille-beneteau.com

www.labaulenautic.com

The catch. Normal prudence that's all. There is a standard form transaction contract and there are reputable independent surveyors on the spot.

Let me know if you would like anymore.

John



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bedouin

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

Okay - put your money where your mouth is.

If you are so convinced that he's right then all you need to do is borrow $100,000, convert it into Euros and invest it in Euroland, then when the rate soars you just convert enough back to pay off the loan and you would be sitting on a healthly profit

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Sybarite

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

I have (for a different sum). If you think I am wrong why don't you borrow euros and prove it ?

John

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bedouin

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

Unfortunately I am prohibited by my terms of employment from entering into such transactions. Anyway I don't really anticipate a major move in either direction - the rates may move slowly, but not enough to overcome any difference in interest rates, and the transaction costs.

It's particularly difficult when sterling is involved - even if the Euro does rise against the dollar, it is difficult to say whether sterling will stick with the dollar, or rise with the Euro

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david_e

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

Beneteau etc great value, but as you say be quick. Have just had a mailshot saying that prices go up 7% after May 1 on benny's.

No doubt that some boats are cheaper abroad but having follwed ben/jen prices for a few years I have seen a distinct leveling out in the price of new and newer boats during last year. The eyb-boats website is a good place to compare prices in different countries for a specific model.

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Sybarite

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Re: Don\'t wait too long ..

It will only rise in this context if there is a large inflow of foreign money - given that the assumption for the euro rise is the same. For sterling to keep pace it must offer something to the investor; in the absence of a "home" (currency) market based on 250 million people, it must logically offer higher interest rates.

Is this politically acceptable in the UK?

John

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