Don't laugh - AWB or Swan !

[zarathustra]

I am comparing a 3 year old Swan with a newbuild fully laden AWB what is unrealistic about the comparison ? It is what it is. Of course I could go for an older Swan but to find one at circa £400 I would have to go older than 10 years and that brings in wear and tear and more importantly system obsolecence issues which I really dont want - as we all know technology has advanced in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years.

I agree that buying a secondhand JenBavBen probably makes sense and to use that as a 'learner' before committing to a more expensive investment.

Do you have alot of sailing experience? What exactly do you mean "to use as learner" and will you be sailing single-handed, or short handed, or with more crew? I am not sure Swans are considered the best for short-handed sailors but boats can be adapted.

I am not sure where you are looking for used boats, but there are loads of them for sale, a huge choice if you search the umpteen yacht brokers websites from all over the world. Also a good time to buy.
I would suggest with your budget not to worry about a boat being outdated. realistically, for cruising boats the only significant parts of the boat that have become outdated are the electronics, and these are relatively inexpensive to update. Cruising boats themselves haven't really become outdated at all, or at least they don't get outdated the same speed as racing boats, and even still in 2005 a 30 year old 33ft boat won the Fastnet race!!!

As for Swans, they are nice boats for sure, but for cruising I can't really see that they have much more than the other Swedish builders. Swans got their good reputation from their earlier boats which were designed by S&S in the 60's and 70's, and still very much sought after. Many sailors would have the same x-factor as you call it about most of the Swedish boats, Hallberg Rassy being a very popular one, unless by x-factor you mean racing pedigree, in which case Swans x-factor came from the 70's, and you have said boats older than 10 years don't interest you!

Wear and tear??? reupholster it in your choice of colours, no big deal.

And system obsolesence???? That probably means the electronics, which can easily be updated at little cost.

I am not sure that technology has advanced leaps and bounds in cruising boats, I would have thought most of the leaps and bounds are only relevant to racing yachts.

If you like the Swans then go for it, but I guess most would encourage you to look beyond the label and judge the boat on merits and suitability for what it is used for. And if it is a "learner" boat then £900k sounds like an awful lot of money for a training boat?

If you did want a boat to "learn" in but something not too small, then why not consider something around 40ft or smaller (I would agree with the previous poster, the Danish X-yachts are a smashing boat), of good pedigree that you could easily sell on again at similar price when you have decided between the 3 year old Swan and the new JenBenBav

 

[sighmoon]

1. Mainstream AWBs like the Sun Odyssey 54 are probably just as well-made as low volume luxury yachts in respect of engineered stuff like hulls, engines and deck gear.

I don't think that's true - my 'Big Book of Yacht Surveying' says that Swan hulls have a GRP reinforcement grid, like a big waffle, which produces the stiffest, strongest hull for the weight. I'm not sure what age of Swans this is talking about though.

The deck gear will likely be a bit beefier on the Swan as well.

 

[Seajet]

I agree with the above post, I too winced when I saw the statement that Sun Odyssey's etc are similar build to Swans - not any I've seen !

I think really the OP has answered his own question, it's the Swan which will make his heart sing; I do share others' reservations about draught and suitability for short handed sailing though.

Also I'd have suggested some more training to at least yachtmaster offshore before considering something like the ARC.

Much to be said for a relatively cheaper 'training boat' first, like a lot here I suspect priorities may change a lot after a few years ownership.

 

[TiggerToo]

'ave we all enjoyed a luxury TROLL?

...

and one for the pedants:

Nautor Swan is a FINNISH company. Honestly, you lot seem to have the sense of geography of one Sarah Palin

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Here is a bit of " do as I say, not as I do" advice. You've worked long and hard ( I hope) to get yourself in the position where you can think of spending near enough a million on a boat. Go for it - you will only be dissapointed with a compromise. Go where the heart lies and not where accountancy skills might lead you.

At 65 I realise what people always said - life isn't a rehearsal - is perfectly true and it's now too late for me to do some of the things I always wanted to do but put off.

So do it and do it now!

 

[Quandary]

I agree with the above post, I too winced when I saw the statement that Sun Odyssey's etc are similar build to Swans - not any I've seen !

I think really the OP has answered his own question, it's the Swan which will make his heart sing; I do share others' reservations about draught and suitability for short handed sailing though.

Also I'd have suggested some more training to at least yachtmaster offshore before considering something like the ARC.

Much to be said for a relatively cheaper 'training boat' first, like a lot here I suspect priorities may change a lot after a few years ownership.

Unusual (and a bit worrying) to find myself agreeing with Seajet but be is spot on this time. Though if it were me I would go and look at the X yacht if value for money is an issue at all.

 

[rallyveteran]

Oyster doesn't work for me - found their young staff at SIBS unacceptably snotty and was totally ignored by their sales staff when finally allowed onboard one of their boats at the SIBS - eventually walked off after 20 minutes of trying to get an interview with their sales staff who were too busy talking amongst themselves - unbelievable ! In the present economic climate they deserve to go under for the total lack of sales acumen they displayed.

So you are going to decide how to spend up to 900K based on how some salesmen treated you at a boat show?

Words fail me.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I can't get my head around anyone who is smart enough to earn a spare million pounds needs to ask advice from a group of perfect strangers about whether to buy a Swan or an AWB.

If I had £900,000 to spend I would buy a Westerly OCEANLORD and spend the rest on a series of one year exclusive contracts on the most gorgeous long limbed totty I could find. After the year is up, find another. £900,000 would see me out after thirty years or so.

 

[morsimon]

So you are going to decide how to spend up to 900K based on how some salesmen treated you at a boat show?

Words fail me.

Its called 'customer service' or a lack of it.
I am the customer - if I get ignored why the hell should I give them my business ? They are one of a number of quality builders in a competitive marketplace. They spend a fortune on 'marketing' and then get it all wrong when a potential client first comes into direct contact with the company. With this experience I am not deciding where I am going to spend the money but I am making a decision about where I will NOT be spending it. Your incredulity surprises me.

PS - when you board the Oyster you need to give them your contact details including email etc - I duly did so and have not heard a word from them since. I work in a service industry - if my company presented as poor an impression as Oyster have done then we would be out of business and my present dilemma would not exist as I would be broke.

 

[TiggerToo]

Its called 'customer service' or a lack of it.
I am the customer - if I get ignored why the hell should I give them my business ? They are one of a number of quality builders in a competitive marketplace. They spend a fortune on 'marketing' and then get it all wrong when a potential client first comes into direct contact with the company. With this experience I am not deciding where I am going to spend the money but I am making a decision about where I will NOT be spending it. Your incredulity surprises me.

PS - when you board the Oyster you need to give them your contact details including email etc - I duly did so and have not heard a word from them since. I work in a service industry - if my company presented as poor an impression as Oyster have done then we would be out of business and my present dilemma would not exist as I would be broke.

Don't feed the troll... it is in Oyster bashing mood now

 

[sighmoon]

Its called 'customer service' or a lack of it.
I am the customer - if I get ignored why the hell should I give them my business ? They are one of a number of quality builders in a competitive marketplace. They spend a fortune on 'marketing' and then get it all wrong when a potential client first comes into direct contact with the company. With this experience I am not deciding where I am going to spend the money but I am making a decision about where I will NOT be spending it. Your incredulity surprises me.

I tend to agree - if a company can not control their sales environment, they might not be able to control their lay up environment either. You have to judge what you can't see on the basis of what you can. With a second hand boat, it's different - I'd prefer it if he's rude enough to put off other punters, so I can get a good price.

At SIBS a few years ago, I (scruffy, youngish) was turned away form every big boat (including Jeanneau and Beneteau), apart from the Swan 100, who'd just had an appointment cancelled.

 

[morsimon]

I totally agree but not sure where that leaves me

I agree with the above post, I too winced when I saw the statement that Sun Odyssey's etc are similar build to Swans - not any I've seen !

I think really the OP has answered his own question, it's the Swan which will make his heart sing; I do share others' reservations about draught and suitability for short handed sailing though.

Also I'd have suggested some more training to at least yachtmaster offshore before considering something like the ARC.

Much to be said for a relatively cheaper 'training boat' first, like a lot here I suspect priorities may change a lot after a few years ownership.

Nautor's Swan 53 is specifically designed for short-handed sailing and whilst the draught is an issue at 2.4m they do produce a daggerboard version which only draws 1.4m when raised - see

http://www.swanyachts.co.uk/documents/Swan53presentation.pdf

You sum up my dilemma pretty well - you initially suggest I should go for the Swan but then end up suggesting the training boat instead !

 

[flaming]

You work hard to earn money. You then spend the money on living, and what's left over on fun.
Only you can know whether you, personally, can get more fun by spending more money on a "better" boat, or using the left over money for some other pursuit/cause. Or simply not spending it...

Personally, if I could afford a Swan but didn't buy one I'd probably always have a pang of regret whenever I saw one.
But then, maybe I'm just a snob?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Nautor's Swan 53 is specifically designed for short-handed sailing and whilst the draught is an issue at 2.4m they do produce a daggerboard version which only draws 1.4m when raised - see

Now that would be interesting! And being Nautor, you could be pretty confident the plate and associated mechanism would be well engineered and fit for purpose.

(Pity that bikini-clad lovely is sunbathing just where you'd want to put solar panels! Is she a deletable option?))

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Here is a bit of " do as I say, not as I do" advice. You've worked long and hard ( I hope) to get yourself in the position where you can think of spending near enough a million on a boat. Go for it - you will only be dissapointed with a compromise. Go where the heart lies and not where accountancy skills might lead you.

At 65 I realise what people always said - life isn't a rehearsal - is perfectly true and it's now too late for me to do some of the things I always wanted to do but put off.

So do it and do it now!

I agree.
I agree
I agree.

 

[savageseadog]

The Swan would always be more attractive for resale and hold its value better in the short and long term.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Its called 'customer service' or a lack of it.
I am the customer - if I get ignored why the hell should I give them my business ? They are one of a number of quality builders in a competitive marketplace. They spend a fortune on 'marketing' and then get it all wrong when a potential client first comes into direct contact with the company. With this experience I am not deciding where I am going to spend the money but I am making a decision about where I will NOT be spending it. Your incredulity surprises me.

PS - when you board the Oyster you need to give them your contact details including email etc - I duly did so and have not heard a word from them since. I work in a service industry - if my company presented as poor an impression as Oyster have done then we would be out of business and my present dilemma would not exist as I would be broke.

You are the lucky one. I gave them my details and have been sent a regular string of emails, mailers, magazines, charter offers. Even though I told them I have bought from someone else.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Its called 'customer service' or a lack of it.
I am the customer - if I get ignored why the hell should I give them my business ? .... Your incredulity surprises me.

I agree... if I had that kind of money to spend I'd feel the same way...

 

[photodog]

Its called 'customer service' or a lack of it.
I am the customer - if I get ignored why the hell should I give them my business ? They are one of a number of quality builders in a competitive marketplace. They spend a fortune on 'marketing' and then get it all wrong when a potential client first comes into direct contact with the company. With this experience I am not deciding where I am going to spend the money but I am making a decision about where I will NOT be spending it. Your incredulity surprises me.

PS - when you board the Oyster you need to give them your contact details including email etc - I duly did so and have not heard a word from them since. I work in a service industry - if my company presented as poor an impression as Oyster have done then we would be out of business and my present dilemma would not exist as I would be broke.

Thats funny, they were very friendly with me, answered all my question, spent time discussing the boats preformance, interior options, sail handling...

I was on the verge of placing a order until I went into the aft cabin... and could hear the "Gloop Gloop" of the waves slapping under the transom, and I thought... cobblers to that, if I am gonna have the gloop gloop on a £800,000 boat I might as well stick with my Bavaria 31!

 

[morsimon]

Thats funny, they were very friendly with me, answered all my question, spent time discussing the boats preformance, interior options, sail handling...

I was on the verge of placing a order until I went into the aft cabin... and could hear the "Gloop Gloop" of the waves slapping under the transom, and I thought... cobblers to that, if I am gonna have the gloop gloop on a £800,000 boat I might as well stick with my Bavaria 31!

I am pleased your experience was better than mine ! It doesn't change my view of the company though. Their boats clearly sell well although personally I am not keen on centre cockpits.