Dolphin right of way

[SimonD]

For those of you familiar with the "dolphin gap" in the sub-marine barrier between Portsmouth and Langstone, is there a right of way through it? (Sorry if this sounds like a daft question, but I've just had a near miss with a boat coming the other way who seemed convinced that there was one, and that this took precedence over the col regs).

 

[JeremyF]

Ive always thought Colregs applies, but I also try and keep to the right.
BTW, today I went through the little gap right by the beach. Rather fun being that close, but its definitely a case of one at a time.

<font color=blue>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=blue>

 

[stephenh]

I would understand it to be a 'narrow channel' within the regs, so Rule 9 comes into play.
From this , Sir Gorell Barnes adjudicating in 1908 between SS Burton and SS Leopold de Belgique, said
"If both approach the spot at about the same time, then they must act reasonably, and it would be very reasonable that the one which has the tide against her should wait while the other passed"
Which way was the tide flowing ?

Stephen H

 

[SimonD]

Tide was flooding east. I was sailing with the tide on starboard hard on the wind. I passed through the gap one third of the gap width from the northern marker. The boat coming the other way was on port running under jib only. He seemed determined to pass down my leeward side. Hence, I didn't want to turn to port as that would have shut him out (and I considered myself to be the stand on vessel) and I couldn't harden up any more. My only alternative would have been to tack, but I didn't fancy that right in the gap. I also couldn't believe that he wouldn't put his helm down and pass me to windward, hence going through the two thirds of the gap left (no other vessels near by).
After calming down from a very near miss, I wondered if there is, or he believed there is, a keep to the right rule. It's the only way I can explain his insistence on ploughing through the gap.

 

[davel]

So what actually happened? Did you tack? did he give way? did you collide?
We have aright to know !!

Dave L.

 

[Skyva_2]

Some years ago I had exactly the same experience, and had to take avoiding action. The other guy was motoring!

I assumed that the other boat was acting as if in a channel, when 'keep right' is the rule when coming from seaward.

Confusing, a definitive answer would be welcome.

Keith

 

[SimonD]

He carried on, I did a remarkable impression of a startled rabbit, and he missed me, by a (very) few feet. As he went by, he shouted "how much room do you need?" I politely pointed out that I was on starboard tack, although I confess that in the heat of the moment I may have raised my voice somewhat.

Two points (IMHO): First, is the gap treated under col regs as a channel and if so, at what point does a starboard tack stand on vessel on the left of the channel become the give way vessel. Second, as it was clear that he wasn't going to change course, I should (under col regs) have taken avoiding action. However, I was so absolutely staggered by his actions, I literally couldn't believe that he wasn't going to change course at any minute. Hence I froze.

 

[kingfisher]

Rule 9


Narrow Channels

(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

Keeping to starboard of a narrow channel takes precedence over a port-starboard situation.

The definition of "narrow channel" depends on the type of vessels: what constitutes a narrow channel for two oil tankers will not be a narrow channel for two sailing yachts.

But how to interpret "keeping to starboard" ? IMHO If the other yacht could have avoided you by bearing off, and passing to your leeward, he was not keeping to starboard. As long as you leave enough (!!) room between yourself and the starboard side of the channel for him to pass safely (!!!), he shouldn't gripe.

Sailing to the starboard side of the centre line of the channel is *not* "keeping to starboard".

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[kingfisher]

A motor vessel, keeping to starboard in a narrow channel, has right of way over a sailing vessel.

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[bedouin]

That's a novel interpretation of the Colregs - would you care to justify it

 

[kingfisher]

Art 9(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel (X) which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

Note that the word "sailing" is missing in the case of the vessel (X). Ergo: in a narrow channel or fairway, a motor vessel has right of way over a sailing vessel when keeping to starboard.



Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[bedouin]

ROFL! nm

.

 

[Skyva_2]

I'm not complaining, it just took me by surprise at the time. It is a narrow channel and on reflection I believe Rule 9 applies.

Keith

 

[tome]

I think you're way off with your interpretation here!

Rule 9(b) applies to a smaller vessel impeding the passage of a larger vessel in a narrow fairway. In this case both vessels were equally constrained within a narrow fairway so the normal rules apply.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just to throw another carrot into the stew

Even if, for some reason beyond me, P&S rule didn't apply, your were beating, he was running. Ergo, he was windward yacht and obliged to keep clear of a leeward yacht.

 

[jacksaid]

I have been through this gap many times. Every time I have been through I, and other boats have kept to starboard and have never had a problem.

 

[SimonD]

Interesting definition of channel or fairway. If you are right, at what point does the gap become a channel? My impression of a channel is something you're progressing along, e.g. a river. This is something entirely different in the sense that it's more or less instantaneous. Therefore, at what point do the rules change?
Also, both of us could only safely navigate between the gap. Where does that leave us?

 

[Guest]

Another case of 'clear intentions' I think.

Your intentions were clear. You were going to continue (if possible) on your current heading, through the gap. Being on Starboard, and leeward vessel, as well as being constrained by the fact that you were beating, you'd obviously hope that he'd make a small alteration in course to ease the situation.

Unfortunately, some people stick so blindly to the only colreg that they actually know ie "pass port to port" that they can be quite a liability.

Keep your eyes open and, if you're beating through the gap, always have your engine ready to fire up at a moments notice!


On a similar point, what's the largest vessel anyone's seen using the Small Boat Passage? I've once had to wait while a 150ft coaster barged straight through coming into Spithead... No argument about motor giving way to sail occurred that day!