david_e
Active member
This month's PBO has an article about someone who has bought a 1990 Sadler 34 to do up. Should a 1990 boat need doing up, especially a Brit built boat, or is this nonsense?
Doing up an old boat?
- Thread starter david_e
- Start date
30boat
N/A
Being British built is not an assurance of quality I'm afraid.I bought a 1980 Westerly Fulmar and in many ways it is not better built than the average Jeanneau of the same vintage.Granted the laminate is very strong and seems to be very well laid up(no osmosis) but the detail work is not good.The bulkheads to hull bonding is weak and irregular the keelbolts leak and the bilge reinforcements(floors) were so thin they actualy broke when the boat was laid up and had to be heavily beefed up. The electrical system uses poor quality wire and the water and diesel tanks are only screwed down to poorly finished wooden bearers.All this is being rectified now but it is an awfull lot of work and these boats can be quite pricey, although to be fair this one wasn't.
Sammy
New member
A lot depends on how a boat has been treated and looked after I have a Sadler 34 and have looked after it well but it still need bits doing to it. If it had been used hard and not looked after it would certainly need doing up regardless of where it was built.
www.BoatsThames.com
www.BoatsThames.com
ccscott49
Active member
Wot do you expect? it's plastic innit!
david_e
Active member
Re: Plastic
Aren't all boats? (don't bother to answer!!)
Aren't all boats? (don't bother to answer!!)
ccscott49
Active member
Re: Grrrrrrr! (NM)
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G
Guest
Guest
I'm pretty new to this, but here I go anyway. Every boat needs doing up, you simply never finish!! The jobs just get smaller (more expensive, prettier and more time consuming), need re-doing occasionally because we are amateurs and from a distance of more than an inch are invisible to all but the owner---- but they still need doing. It's the law of diminishin' returns 'innit.
Why? because the alternative is less than perfection and much, much worse- a winter watching Eastenders! I'd rather re-bed my stanchions again because there is a chance, just a chance that that stray water in my bilge came from there and if I don't I'll have to spend a Saturday at Designer Outlet Village, shopping, for bargains? Where's me rope, no thinners, reasonable prices????
Why? because the alternative is less than perfection and much, much worse- a winter watching Eastenders! I'd rather re-bed my stanchions again because there is a chance, just a chance that that stray water in my bilge came from there and if I don't I'll have to spend a Saturday at Designer Outlet Village, shopping, for bargains? Where's me rope, no thinners, reasonable prices????
david_e
Active member
Well I suppose that you can't argue with this, especially spending time on the boat attending to running maintenance as oppose the dreaded "Shopping Mall", ( our local one near Sheffield I refer to as "MeadowHell"). But should a boat that is only 12 years old really need a refit costing quite a bit of money, running maintenance apart, or is it a case of the boat being neglected or just not up to it?
billmacfarlane
Active member
The article was comparing spending money on a Sadler 34 to bring it up to a " as new" state , then comparing the total cost of doing so plus the cost of buying the boat originally , to a new 34' boat. I thought the article itself hugely flawed with more holes than a Swiss cheese. Firstly I can't imagine anyone wanting to bring a 10 year old boat up to as new. Carry out repairs yes . Routine maintenance yes. Cleaning yes . As new ? You can't really do it properlly. For a start the wiring won't be renewed. The engine will be 10 years old etc. Secondly it wasn't so much a piece of balanced journalism as a eulogy to the Sadler 34. The guy writing the article worked for Sadlers when they were a going concern. He makes broad sweeping statements like saying that from "about" 1986 Sadlers introduced isothphalic gel coats which of course make a hull less prone to osmosis. Trouble is that I'm sure that the majority of Sadlers were built before 1986. He should have backed it up with facts and figures. In another sweeping statement he says that the majority of production boats built today won't be worth a button in 10 years time but fails to back such a sweeping generalisation with any arguments. Not good journalism. There were many more things I could go on about but I'll take off my Victor Meldrew cap and go back to the original question. Should a 10 year old boat need restoration. Personally if I was thinking of buying a 10 year old model and I found one in such a state , I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole as I would have been very heavily sailed. I can imagine a starstruck owner attempting to do such a thing when in love with a particular boat. Trouble is when love and such strong emotions enter the equation , commercial considerations promptly leave the other way.
Sinbad1
New member
All boats, irrespective of age need doing up. Its just that the jobs become smaller and more refined. Anyway there is no better way of learning how the various systems and components work.
At the end of the day it depends upon your own standard. Some boats are pig sty's. I want to hoover my bilges and see any drop of oil or water that comes in. Its not being obsessive, it means that I can spot a malfunction early and do something about it before it becomes catastrophic.
It must be damned dissapointing tho to get a brand new boat and discover leaks and bulkheads not bonded in. Getting an older boat and working your way through it has certain advantages and you know that you will get your money back when you sell her!
At the end of the day it depends upon your own standard. Some boats are pig sty's. I want to hoover my bilges and see any drop of oil or water that comes in. Its not being obsessive, it means that I can spot a malfunction early and do something about it before it becomes catastrophic.
It must be damned dissapointing tho to get a brand new boat and discover leaks and bulkheads not bonded in. Getting an older boat and working your way through it has certain advantages and you know that you will get your money back when you sell her!
ccscott49
Active member
The starry eyed "fixerupper" and sail to the sun, syndrome! Boatyards full of em' everywhere you go!
david_e
Active member
Inclined to agree when put this way, when reading about this 1990 Sadler I was minded to think about a 1990 Beneteau 32, and others I have seen, which looked fine, so yes alot of nonsense as I thought.
And the other point is that the price of these Sadlers in general (albeit 32's, not many 34's around) seems to be similar to the Ben/Jens if not a touch less, although I'm not sure what they cost new so wouldn't know the relative depreciation/appreciation curve. Having siad all this the review of the 32 in ST this month looks good for the boat.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by david_e on Mon Apr 22 12:51:18 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>
And the other point is that the price of these Sadlers in general (albeit 32's, not many 34's around) seems to be similar to the Ben/Jens if not a touch less, although I'm not sure what they cost new so wouldn't know the relative depreciation/appreciation curve. Having siad all this the review of the 32 in ST this month looks good for the boat.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by david_e on Mon Apr 22 12:51:18 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>
ccscott49
Active member
Cut the top off and use it as a little persons sandpit! bout' all it's fit for!
billmacfarlane
Active member
When I was looking for a boat in 1985 , I bought a new Sadler 29 for £ 27,000. The competition at the time , boats like the Beneteau First 29 and the Kelt 29 were a little more expensive. A Sadlet 32 SE , which came spec'd up to a reasonable standard , would have cost in the low thirties , something like £32.000. The Sadler 34 would have cost that much more , something in the region of £40,000 in 1985. The Sadler 32 is my personal favourite Sadler followed by the 26. I think it's a stiffer boat than the 34 , but of course with less accommodation. If you like the look of the Sadler 32 , French rivals to look at are the First 305 , my favourite Beneteau of them all , and Jeanneau Sunlight , my old boat. British boats to compare it to would be the Westerly Fulmar and costing a bit more money , the Moody 31.
G
Guest
Guest
Plastic, wood, ferro, steel, papyrus, all need looking after, but one aspect most reputable European insurers are now insisting on is that of replacing standing rigging if it is more than ten (10) years old.
The plethora of used boats that are up for sail whose age is in excess of ten years, will probably never be sold, as one will have to look even closer at the economics in whether to do it up or not.
An investment in a full structural survey, including that of the engine with an oil analysis, over and above that which an insurer will insist on, will pay dividends in the longterm and will give you guidance on what to budget for in excess of the purchase price.
One point to note: the yachting press has been very quiet over the subject of the ten year life of standing rigging!!!
Perhaps there should be articles on yacht insurance and yacht you can expect from your insurance and the insurance companies. (Seperate topic here for discussion)
The plethora of used boats that are up for sail whose age is in excess of ten years, will probably never be sold, as one will have to look even closer at the economics in whether to do it up or not.
An investment in a full structural survey, including that of the engine with an oil analysis, over and above that which an insurer will insist on, will pay dividends in the longterm and will give you guidance on what to budget for in excess of the purchase price.
One point to note: the yachting press has been very quiet over the subject of the ten year life of standing rigging!!!
Perhaps there should be articles on yacht insurance and yacht you can expect from your insurance and the insurance companies. (Seperate topic here for discussion)
chippie
New member
Good idea, I once saw a photo of a redundant fibreglass boat mould that someone had turned into a swimming pool.
david_e
Active member
Re: Standing Rigging
Interesting point about the rigging, an experienced salesman from a prominent broker and new boat supplier, told me at Easter that if you take the mast down each year it lengthens the replacement cycle to 20 years as it is only subject to half a years wear. I took this tongue in cheek, naturally, but didn't ask about the insurance angle, will next time though.
Interesting point about the rigging, an experienced salesman from a prominent broker and new boat supplier, told me at Easter that if you take the mast down each year it lengthens the replacement cycle to 20 years as it is only subject to half a years wear. I took this tongue in cheek, naturally, but didn't ask about the insurance angle, will next time though.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Took another look at the article last night - doesn't seem much was done which wouldn't come under the heading of routine maintenance, replacement of normal wear and tear, etc. Doesn't seem to be anything structural. Paint, varnish, rigging, new electronics. None of it seems to condemn the boat as sub-standard.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
I don't yet have the luxury of the article, publications take a few more days to travel across the North Sea. It's no secret, though, that I have a Sadler 34 and I think it is an excellent boat, within its price range. Mine dates from 1985 and I have been "doing it up" for the past seven or eight years, since the day I bought it. As others have said, there's always something to improve.
The one thing I have not renewed from your list is the electronics. I think the original B&G Hornet setup is excellent, coming to analogue wind and boat speed dials from digital made me realise just how much we have been conned by these "advances". I've now gone back to an analogue watch, too! I replaced the depth sounder with a Corus and added a Stowe GPS repeater but otherwise no changes. Replacing the masthead wind kit has cost an arm and a leg but after 15 years I suppose its life was run.
Otherwise it has been sails, rigging, engine, cockpit seating, toilet and small items, plus additions of heating, plotter, Autoprop. One job done by a previous owner was new saloon sole boards, a very worthwhile improvement.
The one thing I have not renewed from your list is the electronics. I think the original B&G Hornet setup is excellent, coming to analogue wind and boat speed dials from digital made me realise just how much we have been conned by these "advances". I've now gone back to an analogue watch, too! I replaced the depth sounder with a Corus and added a Stowe GPS repeater but otherwise no changes. Replacing the masthead wind kit has cost an arm and a leg but after 15 years I suppose its life was run.
Otherwise it has been sails, rigging, engine, cockpit seating, toilet and small items, plus additions of heating, plotter, Autoprop. One job done by a previous owner was new saloon sole boards, a very worthwhile improvement.
