Do you still beat to windward ?

[PhillM]

My new to me boat doesn't have an engine. I could row it, but that will be hard work so I think I shall prefer to beat to windward if needed.

 

[TernVI]

My new to me boat doesn't have an engine. I could row it, but that will be hard work so I think I shall prefer to beat to windward if needed.

With your boat, it won't be a case of whether you beat to windward, more a matter of whom you beat to windward!

 

[westhinder]

When I think of the most fun (non racing) sails I can ever remember, none of them are reaches. ...

Much as I enjoy a good beat or a nice long leg on the wind, I can just as well savour a nice, effortless reach. Three consecutive days of reaching on the outbound trip to Norway and six weeks later coming back home with another three days’ reach does fit my idea of a nice trip.

 

[boatiebert]

Am I being perverse or misled? It looks like I'm in the middle of swopping for a gunter rig because they'd said to be better at it on a small boat.

I remember reading an account of one of Blondie Hasler's deliberate exercises, short tacking up some narrow tidal Highland strait in his junk rigged Kingfisher 20. No one championing them here?

 

[TernVI]

Am I being perverse or misled? It looks like I'm in the middle of swopping for a gunter rig because they'd said to be better at it on a small boat.

I remember reading an account of one of Blondie Hasler's deliberate exercises, short tacking up some narrow tidal Highland strait in his junk rigged Kingfisher 20. No one championing them here?

People often make vague claims about the merits of other rigs, often based on anecdotal hearsay from a previous century.
Yes, other rigs can be made to work.
Making sensible comparisons can be challenging though.

A big part of the problem is that the people who are drawn to 'alternative' rigs are usually not the people who want to race or get from A to B as quickly as possible.

 

[boatiebert]

No, not unless it is a slow race. However, rather than "alternative", I'd call it traditional. It was the original rig offered with the boat when it & me were made, & not one of them new fangled pointy rigs which I am sure will never catch on.

Not keen on the idea of smearing my mast with beef tallow though. Pretty sure they don't carry pots of that on the RORC.

Vague? That a reference from: Barnes, Roger (2014). The Dinghy Cruising Companion: tales and advice from sailing in a small open boat (Kindle ed.). London: Adlard Coles Nautical. ISBN 9781408180273.

 

[johnalison]

No, not unless it is a slow race. However, rather than "alternative", I'd call it traditional. It was the original rig offered with the boat when it & me were made, & not one of them new fangled pointy rigs which I am sure will never catch on.

Not keen on the idea of smearing my mast with beef tallow though. Pretty sure they don't carry pots of that on the RORC.

Vague? That a reference from: Barnes, Roger (2014). The Dinghy Cruising Companion: tales and advice from sailing in a small open boat (Kindle ed.). London: Adlard Coles Nautical. ISBN 9781408180273.

Stick to it. The Gunter rig is the best-looking rig for any classic boat, as well as working pretty well.

 

[TernVI]

Stick to it. The Gunter rig is the best-looking rig for any classic boat, ...

In your opinon.

 

[Ningaloo]

Sorry, but this isn't correct.

When you are sailing, whether that is on a lake or a tidal sea, the only thing that matters to your boat is the difference in velocity between the water and the air. So if the wind across the water, the "True Wind" is 8 knots then your boat will make the same VMG to windward relative to the water regardless of if that is due to a 6 knot ground wind and 2 knot favourable tide, an 8 knot ground wind and no tide, or a 10 knot ground wind and 2 knots of adverse tide.
You then just add the VMG to wind to the tide. So if your boat can make 4 knots VMG to windward in the given true wind, then with a 2 knot favourable tide it will do 6 knots VMG over the ground. And 2 Knots if the tide is going the other way. This is no different to a boat motoring at 4 knots directly into the wind.

Perhaps I was not using the correct terms, however we agree the net result is that with zero tide the boat makes 4kts VMG tacking and 6kts VMG motoring whereas with 2kts adverse tide this is reduced to 2kts (50% reduction) tacking and 4kts (33% reduction) motoring.

Without tide if you recorded your track you would see 90degree "tacking" angles. With 2kts tide you would see (approx) 127degree "tacking "angles.

Basic trigonometry, and ignoring all other effects for simplicity... However as you have pointed out, the actual is even worse than this theoretical calculation as the adverse tide will also reduce the apparent wind and likely the boat speed too!

Anyway, I know that when I look at my track with a tide that is 33% of my boatspeed and I am tacking directly into it, it is a pretty demoralising picture!

 

[boatiebert]

Stick to it. The Gunter rig is the best-looking rig for any classic boat, as well as working pretty well.

Thanks, nothing like bright varnish & tanbark sails ...

I have wondered about a spritsail rig, like the Thames barges use, for the Broads though. Where you pull the sail up rather than lower it to reef it. Not the traditional Broads rig but I'm not sure I see the point of boom swinging around under the height of the banks.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I have wondered about a spritsail rig, like the Thames barges use, for the Broads though. Where you pull the sail up rather than lower it to reef it. Not the traditional Broads rig but I'm not sure I see the point of boom swinging around under the height of the banks.

Wherries didn't have booms.

 

[Daydream believer]

Wherries didn't have booms.

As in "whereis" the boom

 

[boatiebert]

Wherries didn't have booms.

Nope. but your typical, traditional Broads boat has one twice as long to make up for them! Yup, I meant booms re them but, like I wrote, I think you need a top of sail up top, not down at the water hence wondering if a boomless spritsail would work.

There are some Wherries up there;

 

[Poignard]

Nope. but your typical, traditional Broads boat has one twice as long to make up for them! Yup, I meant booms re them but, like I wrote, I think you need a top of sail up top, not down at the water hence wondering if a boomless spritsail would work.

There are some Wherries up there;

Is that "Gleaner"?

 

[johnalison]

In your opinon.

The only one that matters, of course.