Do you still beat to windward ?

westhinder said:
No Dutch nautical term that I can think of.
Sailing closehauled is 'scherp aan de wind zeilen', beating in the sense of a series of tacks to reach a destination to windward is 'opkruisen'
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I was thinking of Proto-German and Early / Middle Dutch rather than the modern languages.

For example, the proto-German verb for "to flatten" is / was "lofo", and could be used to describe tightening / flattening a sail for going to windward. This entered Middle Dutch as "lof" , but came into use in Middle English (c.1400) as "loof", from which we get the modern words "luff" and aloof". In modern Dutch, the same word is now "loef". Incidentally, the same Proto-Germanic word "lofo" can also mean the flat / palm of the hand, and has come to English via Old French as "glove". So you actually have two completely separate English words, with utterly different meanings, originating from the same word about 1200 years ago.

Do I get my "Drift a thread" medal, now?
 
dombuckley said:
I was thinking of Proto-German and Early / Middle Dutch rather than the modern languages.

For example, the proto-German verb for "to flatten" is / was "lofo", and could be used to describe tightening / flattening a sail for going to windward. This entered Middle Dutch as "lof" , but came into use in Middle English (c.1400) as "loof", from which we get the modern words "luff" and aloof". In modern Dutch, the same word is now "loef". Incidentally, the same Proto-Germanic word "lofo" can also mean the flat / palm of the hand, and has come to English via Old French as "glove". So you actually have two completely separate English words, with utterly different meanings, originating from the same word about 1200 years ago.

Do I get my "Drift a thread" medal, now?
Click to expand...
No medal. It seems entirely relevant to me, and none the less interesting for that.

Along with Mandarin and some other languages, my Danish is weak, but I have heard or read that they have a word for "long and short" tacking. I have filed this doubtful information away next to the knowledge that the Italians have a word for an attractive fuzz of hair on a girl's upper lip.
 
lw395 said:
Generally we plan to make good use of tides, so beating or motoring against the tide is minimal.
If we are sailing along the coast, I'm more likely to amend the destination than to motor all day.
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You are lucky to be able to make your destination in one tide! We will have been sitting here for nearly a week to get the most efficient tides AND wind for our next leg. Even then we will be beating into a bit of wind over tide at the end. Not my preferred choice but I think that we might have the engine on towards the end. So far, on this trip we have done just short of 900 miles and the engine has been on for 50 hours so we don't exactly motor everywhere...
 
johnalison said:
No medal. It seems entirely relevant to me, and none the less interesting for that.

Along with Mandarin and some other languages, my Danish is weak, but I have heard or read that they have a word for "long and short" tacking. I have filed this doubtful information away next to the knowledge that the Italians have a word for an attractive fuzz of hair on a girl's upper lip.
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To drift a bit further and add to the confusion, the Swedish term for tacking or going about is 'slå' – which literally means to 'beat'.
Beating, on the other hand, as in sailing close hauled, translates into sailing 'bidevind' – a loan from Dutch 'bij de wind', similar to English 'by the wind".
 
Not quite as big a drift.

What about a "fetch"?
I like it when I can sail a good "fetch" is this better than beating, or still beating.
I tend to think of it as better than beating. even if it is beating.
 
Uricanejack said:
Not quite as big a drift.

What about a "fetch"?
I like it when I can sail a good "fetch" is this better than beating, or still beating.
I tend to think of it as better than beating. even if it is beating.
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I think a fetch is beating after you have eased the sheets a couple of inches. Full and bye is equivalent. More close hauled than a close reach but not at the limit!
 
I don't think so. I sometimes sail a close fetch, so an common or garden fetch must be less close. I've always assumed that it just meant something like a reach.
 
johnalison said:
I don't think so. I sometimes sail a close fetch, so an common or garden fetch must be less close. I've always assumed that it just meant something like a reach.
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But do you reach as well?

I would see beating as being 45 degrees to the wind
a fetch being saying 46-50.
Then close reach, beam reach, broad reach, Running

So if you can sail closer to the wind than 45 degrees maybe from 45 round to say 40 is a close fetch.
 
Don't mean to be pedant but surely it's just a a beat and not a beat to windward. Just as one wouldn't say a run downwind.
A pleonasm innit.
 
A fetch isn't close hauled, and neither is a close or tight fetch - they are more akin to footing. But they aren't a reach either, not even a close reach. Close hauled is everything wound in tight, and beating involves tacking. At least that is my view of the world... :)
 
Maybe I am completely wrong.

To me a "Fetch".

Is when I can almost sail along a channel or to round a point off land to get where I want to go. On one or other tack but not quite. So I would be able to sail one long tack. Until I would have to put in a short tack back across the channel every so often
 
Uricanejack said:
Maybe I am completely wrong.

To me a "Fetch".

Is when I can almost sail along a channel or to round a point off land to get where I want to go. On one or other tack but not quite. So I would be able to sail one long tack. Until I would have to put in a short tack back across the channel every so often
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Yup ... "How are we doing?" "We can just fetch Ardnamurchan".
 
jac said:
But do you reach as well?

I would see beating as being 45 degrees to the wind
a fetch being saying 46-50.
Then close reach, beam reach, broad reach, Running

So if you can sail closer to the wind than 45 degrees maybe from 45 round to say 40 is a close fetch.
Click to expand...

In racing it is quite clear.
A beat is a leg of the course to windward where it is necessary to tack.
To fetch is to reach the mark without tacking.
 
Adlard Coles Sailing Dictionary (2nd Edition)

Close-Hauled - "sailing by the wind as close as she can with advantage in working to windward ..... pointing as close to wind as is efficient with her sails hardened right in, ie without pinching"

Beating - "to sail towards an objective to windward, following a zig-zag course close-hauled on alternate tacks"

Fetch - 2. "to reach an objective, especially a mark in the course, without tacking"

Adlard Coles definitions are good enough for me
 
dunedin said:
Adlard Coles Sailing Dictionary (2nd Edition)

Close-Hauled - "sailing by the wind as close as she can with advantage in working to windward ..... pointing as close to wind as is efficient with her sails hardened right in, ie without pinching"

Beating - "to sail towards an objective to windward, following a zig-zag course close-hauled on alternate tacks"

Fetch - 2. "to reach an objective, especially a mark in the course, without tacking"

Adlard Coles definitions are good enough for me
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Me too.
 
Just bought a smaller, newer, higher aspect ratio genoa. Beating is now a joy and occurs at some 20 odd degrees off the wind, with the boat so balanced that when I let go of the tiller to dig out the autohelm, she stayed on course. Previously, 30* degrees was close hauled with considerable weather helm, such that the autopilot would struggle to hold a course into wind and kept getting stuck at the extremes of travel.**

*Not quite, but you get my point. The smaller sail sets much better when close hauled, the big one had the draft too aft when fully out and was the wrong shape when furled. I would get weather helm under genoa only, even with it furled such that no sail was aft of the mast. Go figure!

I'm now thinking that I should probably go back to a nine-sail wardrobe, but I can neither afford it nor would I care to go messing about on the foredeck that much.

** reduced the occurrence of that by setting the rudder gain overly low. Still have to keep an eye/ear out, but much improved. No good for going up river like that though.
 
Fetch? Wasn't that Chevy Chase at his witless worst? :rolleyes:

I've never been able to escape from the use of 'fetch' as the undisturbed distance over which waves develop length and height...

...and so I've always felt 'fetch' was just an unbroken distance - long or short - which doesn't tie the user to a more precise definition.
 
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