Do we now need an electric boat forum???

Ribtecer said:
Nobody would ever achieve anything with an attitude like that.

England was built on the backs of people that thought the exact opposite of that sort of clap trap.

What a mess we are in, whilst the East rub their hands with qlee.
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"Nobody would ever achieve anything with an attitude like that". Actually that is exactly what happens, things don't get done by guessing, assuming, gut feel or silly wishful thinking. England was built on the backs of people who applied knowledge and learning, not day dreamers. There are lots of books on business history and the great British entrepreneurs. Watt, Brunel, Bessemer, Armstrong, Withworth, Swan, Platt brothers, Siemens brothers, Dunlop, Sopwith, Royce, Brown, Morris, Austin, Harland, and many many more, These people didn't guess or hope, they calculated and took a commercial risk that people would buy their creations. These are the people who effectively built Newcastle, Sheffield, Birmingham, Belfast, Coventry, Oldham, Rochdale, Derby etc etc.

"What a mess we are in", exactly, because people would rather "believe" something because they like it, rather than find out and understand how things really work, then complain when the people of other nations do what too many people in the UK are not prepared to do.

Read the biography of William Armstrong , he was astonishing. Not only a great entrepreneur and engineer, but he foresaw the predicament we are now in and gave a speech to the Royal Society about what would happen back in @ 1860. He calculated how long various fuel sources would last and that eventually we would hopefully use wind, water and solar energy.
 
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kashurst said:
so far we have electric/battery:
bikes, scooters, motorbikes, cars, vans, buses, 40 ton trucks,
small boats, jet skis, hydroplaning 30 foot speed boats
helicopters, small short range planes
earth moving machinery, mining machines, 400 ton mining trucks
forklift trucks, go carts, small tractors - big ones on the way
Norway has a fleet of battery powered car ferries, Sweden has an electric ship moving gravel
Battery energy density has gone from 150 Wh/kg to over 500 Wh/kg

these all work for the majority of people if they so choose

power generation:
450 feet high wind turbines, solar panels with 30% efficiency, nuclear powerstations, tidal systems
UK Power generation has averaged 65% non fossil fuel power this year.
long wave length infra red heaters, reverse cycle air conditioners for cooling AND very good heating. heatpumps - in a well insulated house
massive heatpump systems for hospitals, shopping centres, factories and communities
200mph electric trains
huge mines now run on electricity alone

this all works for industry and domestic purposes

we don't have 20 ton fast electric planing boats - and probably never will. The vast majority of people have never even been on one, let alone owned one.
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The alternatives I was talking about were the other things that come out of a well.

However there are a lot of ifs and buts in most of what you have listed above and some of them are out of place/irrelevant to the discussion. Misleading I'm sorry to say, and either an obfuscation or a conflation...possibly both (especially the mining stuff). One gravel barge in Sweden is not a universal solution.

The point is that you cannot for the foreseeable future remove petroleum derived hydrocarbon chemistry from the world or it will grind to a halt. Thus fuel will be around for far longer than any of us on this forum need to worry about. The Gulf states are cool about this which is why COP28 got what it got.
 
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Bigplumbs said:
Must be lovely freezing your cobs off in a noddy car on a long journey cos you dare not put the heater on
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Only if you're a bloody moron.

I have mine at 21 - 23 degrees depending what I feel like - makes a small difference to the range, but given my car will drive for more hours than my bladder will hold out it's a total non-issue
 
The great thing about EVs as has been said before, is that if say 50% of people transition to THEM for their day to day, it leaves a lot more diesel and so forth for boaters - so you can thank me later.....

In reality though - whilst EV is great for cars and smaller transport I don't believe it will be viable for large trucks, planes and large planing boats in a very VERY long time if ever.

My EV is incredibly efficient, it does about 4m per kilowatt hour (which equates I believe to about 160mpg) and thats why it works - If a large truck will only get 1m per KWh then to do 500m on a charge it will need a battery inconceivably big (with current tech) and a charger so powerful turning it on would dim the lights in a decent sized town to get it charged back up again in a typical lorry drivers tea break kinda time.

So - I actually agree with some people on here - EV might work for some very limited marine applications - but not the 50ft flybridge planing craft.... I don't know the answer for them, maybe hydrogen but probably synthetic fuels.

But I do love the way all the so-called "Experts" on EV's who deride them have probably never actually used or owned one! The pace of change is incredible - the original Leaf struggled to make 100m on a charge and now 1000km (600+ mile) range EV's are already in development (Nio have one coming out in China in 2024) and that improvement is in only about 10-12 years. Current batteries can store about 200-250 Watts per Kilo - so a 64KWh battery weighs about 350 KG - so quite a lot - but when some of the newer batteries come out with 3 or even 4 times this density. CATL are about to launch a 500 W per KG battery - but the Chinese have developed a 711 W per KG battery which, when launched, would be energy dense enough to power commercial airliners.

I do find it sad we've allowed China to lead the way on this - they will take over this market in the next 5 years or so.

When you think how long the ICE car has been about, EV's are very new indeed. But we are entering early mass adoption phase now - a year or two ago about 4% of new cars registered were EV -now it's 16% so it's not doubling every 2 years its quadrupling. Until it's law there will always be luddites out there, so we'll not get to 100% - but in 5 years I bet its more like 50% of the market is EV.
 
Binnacle said:
Such a shame that you find difficulty in following a few paragraphs of cogent reasoning from someone who has professional knowledge of fuels and especially in a maritime environment.

Not every discussion can be reduced to Janet and John level, much as you might find it easier.
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Such a shame you don’t understand reality
 
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ontheplane said:
The great thing about EVs as has been said before, is that if say 50% of people transition to THEM for their day to day, it leaves a lot more diesel and so forth for boaters - so you can thank me later.....

In reality though - whilst EV is great for cars and smaller transport I don't believe it will be viable for large trucks, planes and large planing boats in a very VERY long time if ever.

My EV is incredibly efficient, it does about 4m per kilowatt hour (which equates I believe to about 160mpg) and thats why it works - If a large truck will only get 1m per KWh then to do 500m on a charge it will need a battery inconceivably big (with current tech) and a charger so powerful turning it on would dim the lights in a decent sized town to get it charged back up again in a typical lorry drivers tea break kinda time.

So - I actually agree with some people on here - EV might work for some very limited marine applications - but not the 50ft flybridge planing craft.... I don't know the answer for them, maybe hydrogen but probably synthetic fuels.

But I do love the way all the so-called "Experts" on EV's who deride them have probably never actually used or owned one! The pace of change is incredible - the original Leaf struggled to make 100m on a charge and now 1000km (600+ mile) range EV's are already in development (Nio have one coming out in China in 2024) and that improvement is in only about 10-12 years. Current batteries can store about 200-250 Watts per Kilo - so a 64KWh battery weighs about 350 KG - so quite a lot - but when some of the newer batteries come out with 3 or even 4 times this density. CATL are about to launch a 500 W per KG battery - but the Chinese have developed a 711 W per KG battery which, when launched, would be energy dense enough to power commercial airliners.

I do find it sad we've allowed China to lead the way on this - they will take over this market in the next 5 years or so.

When you think how long the ICE car has been about, EV's are very new indeed. But we are entering early mass adoption phase now - a year or two ago about 4% of new cars registered were EV -now it's 16% so it's not doubling every 2 years its quadrupling. Until it's law there will always be luddites out there, so we'll not get to 100% - but in 5 years I bet its more like 50% of the market is EV.
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Interesting that you think people who chose a different course to you makes them a Luddite. Perhaps they are right and you are wrong. In the time scale you suggest the percentage of noddy cars in use will go down because all those non thinking followers will realise it is not the answer.

It is tax advantages that drives this EV nonsense and not sense. Just in case you are not aware people are allowed to disagree
 
kashurst said:
see middle of page 3 : www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/statistical-review/bp-stats-review-2021-oil.pdf

Based on proven reserves, and current worldwide production rates there is enough for 53 years. Sorry no rose tinted glasses, just basic arithmetic.

Fortunately the arrival of wind turbines, solar panels, electric cars, trucks and buses, IF widely adopted, will mean oil will be available for longer.
If EVs and renewable energy sources are not widely adopted then the oil reserves will be consumed in about 50 years give or take.
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Noddy cars are simple not the answer. Give it a while people will realise then feel very foolish
 
Bigplumbs said:
Sort of says it all. All these noddy car owners dont even think how their electric was generated and all the transmission loss.
They just want to rob the rest of us and not contribute by paying reasonable tax to use the roads. Very selfish
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transmission loss in the UK is about 5%
as to how the UKs electricity is created: National Grid: Live
On average ONLY 35% of UK electricity came from fossil fuels last year.
But you knew this already didn't you?
How much tax did you pay when you you bought a second hand car?? lets see -- errr nothing at all, how very selfish.
People who buy new cars pay import duty of 10% (if made outside the EU) and 20% VAT.
 
Bigplumbs said:
Dream on
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Just to help reduce EV ignorance and prejudice. One more time:

o9R1uUT.jpg
 
The hatred for EVs by some people is so real it’s palpable.
I have a Tesla…of course everyone knows that…and it’s the best car I’ve ever owned or driven. I’ve gone to Italy and England in it…I also use it as a shopping trolley and to take the dog to all his play dates. It’s fun to drive…smooth and goes like the clappers.
Like everyone here I need it to service the boat..and it’s the only transport I have…if you don’t count my electric scooter, electric bicycle or electric rib
 
Bigplumbs said:
Dream on
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So your imagined knowledge based on no facts whatsoever beats my actual real knowledge based on 2 years owning and using an EV as my only car covering over 18,000 m per year does it? Interesting.

Perhaps everyone should rely on blind inaccurate and stupid prejudice rather than fact.

The world is definitely flat. If you go over 50mph your head will explode. These were also things people once thought and then when shown with fact that it wasn't true, continued to believe.

So yes - people who believe things that aren't true when faced with the facts that show their beliefs are incorrect are similar to the Luddites.

Thing is - I am intelligent enough to accept that for a very significant number of people an EV won't work.

If you live in a block of flats with no parking space or even a terrace row without any predictable parking spot and you can't charge at work either - an EV won't work for you - or not easily anyhow.
If you want to tow 3500kg regularly for long distances an EV won't work for you.

BUT I am also intelligent enough to know that they DO work for thousands if not millions of people and that unless you fall into the above 2 decent exceptions they will work for 90% of other people too - even high mileage users - my boss does well over 60,000m a year in his EV and has no issues.....

I did a trip Bristol to Kent and back in the bitter cold - with the heater on about 22 deg, heated
However you are clearly not intelligent enough to see facts evidenced by others and be willing to change their mind or even CONSIDER the possibility that what they read in the Sun and Daily Fail could maybe possibly be written with a significant ulterior motive £££££££££££££££££££££££££

It's ok - history is littered with people who's blind prejudice outweighed all logic, you aren't the first and won't be the last....
 
oldgit said:
Mark my words .....It will never catch on !
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I used to sell Webpages back when the internet was really new - about 1995 ish...

I used to go to business's who's email address ended "@hotmail or similar....

I genuinely used to come across loads of otherwise intelligent people who would say "Yeh, hmm I'm not sure - I mean how on earth will having this page on the internet help me do any business - I mean, no-one will see it will they."

I always wondered how many went bust.

You just have to compare the fortunes of Tesla and Toyota at the moment.

Despite their size and staggering turnover - Toyota is in very real danger of going bankrupt. Their sales in China have plummeted as they transition to NEV and Toyota don't. They have massive assets, but they are assets building products that are falling out of fashion whereas Tesla have massive assets building a product more and more people want - and guess who's making the profit now!

History is littered with cases of people who had fabulous business's who went bust because they didn't see the "direction of travel".

Did anyone know that the first really good CMOS chip for a digital camera was developed by Kodak and then quashed by the CEO because he feared that if "digital photography takes off it could harm our 35mm film business - lets not take this any further" - good choice eh?
 
Bigplumbs said:
Interesting that you think people who chose a different course to you makes them a Luddite. Perhaps they are right and you are wrong. In the time scale you suggest the percentage of noddy cars in use will go down because all those non thinking followers will realise it is not the answer.

It is tax advantages that drives this EV nonsense and not sense. Just in case you are not aware people are allowed to disagree
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When you see electric cars…do you get the urge to smash them ?
 
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