Disillusioned with costly timewasters

[rustybarge]

When my daughter will be in a position to buy a boat ( and she will at some stage) it will be a Princess for one very good reason, the salesman at the LBS took time to show her around one when she was 11 years old. Worth remembering.

I'm going to be very honest, I totally agree with you.
my experience with sales people is that they are 'physiological bullies', they use strategies to try a 'sell' stuff to the punters.
Whether it's a Rolls Royce with diamond studded door caps, or blow up dingy 'Sales techniques' are used on the poor customer.

Rhetorical question: Have you ever met a genuine sales person who isn't trying to sell you 'stuff'?

As a class of people they have become stereotypical 'wide boys'. 'As you act so you will become.'

IMO: Once a salesman always a sales man.

I would urge all sales people to forget about 'screwing over the latest customer', and get back to being a nice human beings!

 

[maby]

I'm going to be very honest, I totally agree with you.
my experience with sales people is that they are 'physiological bullies', they use strategies to try a 'sell' stuff to the punters.
Whether it's a Rolls Royce with diamond studded door caps, or blow up dingy 'Sales techniques' are used on the poor customer.

Rhetorical question: Have you ever met a genuine sales person who isn't trying to sell you 'stuff'?

As a class of people they have become stereotypical 'wide boys'. 'As you act so you will become.'

IMO: Once a salesman always a sales man.

I would urge all sales people to forget about 'screwing over the latest customer', and get back to being a nice human beings!

It is understandable really in the modern sales environment. It may well be the case that some Princess salesman's time invested at a boat show several years ago will bear fruit when the young lady in question has the money to buy a boat, but that is only of value to the company, not the salesman - he or she will be long gone by the time the sale occurs. The sales force is typically on commission and needs the cheques in the bank this year, not a promise of sales five or ten years from now.

 

[rustybarge]

It is understandable really in the modern sales environment. It may well be the case that some Princess salesman's time invested at a boat show several years ago will bear fruit when the young lady in question has the money to buy a boat, but that is only of value to the company, not the salesman - he or she will be long gone by the time the sale occurs. The sales force is typically on commission and needs the cheques in the bank this year, not a promise of sales five or ten years from now.

These are definitely mitigating circumstances, the pressure to 'sell now' or get no bonus; but that's what caused the financial melt down.:ambivalence:

I have a 'friend' that I've know form a young age.
He's a salesman for building supplies.
He came to visit me on my steel barge, and each time he brought a brochure with him.
The latest was ' natural lime putty finishes for rendering buildings'
I don't have a house!!!

...and he left the advertising prominently displayed on my table when he left.......

 

[A1Sailor]

These are definitely mitigating circumstances, the pressure to 'sell now' or get no bonus; but that's what caused the financial melt down.:ambivalence:

I have a 'friend' that I've know form a young age.
He's a salesman for building supplies.
He came to visit me on my steel barge, and each time he brought a brochure with him.
The latest was ' natural lime putty finishes for rendering buildings'
I don't have a house!!!

...and he left the advertising prominently displayed on my table when he left.......

That might make the fuel used to come and visit you a legitimate business expense!
Do you really mean that salesmen can be physiological bullies or do you perhaps mean psychological bullies? One gets your heart rate up and the other gets your back up...

 

[rustybarge]

That might make the fuel used to come and visit you a legitimate business expense!
Do you really mean that salesmen can be physiological bullies or do you perhaps mean psychological bullies? One gets your heart rate up and the other gets your back up...

People aren't' stupid, they instinctively know when somebodies tying to screw them over. All salesmen think the punters are just 'plain dumb'. Of course some are!

So from politicians, to salesmen of all sorts, there is a form of deception going on. It is not a straight forward relationship like ' i like you, we share the same interests', it's more like 'I'm nice to you, so I can get all you money'

Who's going to like someone who's always running a hidden agenda?

So like you say :

do you perhaps mean psychological bullies

definitely!

 

[A1Sailor]

I had an interesting discussion with a car salesman a couple of days ago. We are (genuinely) interested in buying a new car and trading in my old one. Spec and price for the new one were discussed, followed by trade in value for the old one. So he says
"How much do you think your car is worth?"
Me: "£17,500"
He: "You're joking". (I was actually, but we pointed out it was up to him to make the offer.)
Me: "So how much do you think it is worth?"
He: after going to see his sales director, comes back and says "I've written it down on this piece of paper. Do you want to see it?"
Me: "Why don't you just tell us what it says?"
He: "£12,000. What do you think?"
Me: The minimum we'd accept would be £13,000
He: after going to see his sales director "That is the book price, and he says we can't offer more than £12,000."
Me: "Bye bye."

We'll simply make the purchase elsewhere! Perhaps that makes me a psychological bully... :encouragement:

 

[maby]

I had an interesting discussion with a car salesman a couple of days ago. We are (genuinely) interested in buying a new car and trading in my old one. Spec and price for the new one were discussed, followed by trade in value for the old one. So he says
"How much do you think your car is worth?"
Me: "£17,500"
He: "You're joking". (I was actually, but we pointed out it was up to him to make the offer.)
Me: "So how much do you think it is worth?"
He: after going to see his sales director, comes back and says "I've written it down on this piece of paper. Do you want to see it?"
Me: "Why don't you just tell us what it says?"
He: "£12,000. What do you think?"
Me: The minimum we'd accept would be £13,000
He: after going to see his sales director "That is the book price, and he says we can't offer more than £12,000."
Me: "Bye bye."

We'll simply make the purchase elsewhere! Perhaps that makes me a psychological bully... :encouragement:

I guess it all depends on how successful you are at convincing someone else to make a better offer.

Some salesmen do do some strange things - when we changed our boat we viewed the new one, agreed that we liked it, and negotiated a price. We then asked if they would take our current boat in part exchange, they agreed and offered a value. "OK", says I, "so the cost to change is xxxxx" (where xxxxx was the difference between the two figures) and the salesman replied "Oh, no sir, it will be yyyyy" (where yyyyy was a fair bit more than xxxxx). I questioned this and he explained that the price originally quoted was for a sale without part exchange. I asked why he could not simply reduce the part exchange valuation - this seemed to puzzle him.

A little more negotiation, and the cost to change was, indeed, xxxxx.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

When my daughter will be in a position to buy a boat ( and she will at some stage) it will be a Princess for one very good reason, the salesman at the LBS took time to show her around one when she was 11 years old. Worth remembering.

+!. I still remember the garage where my brother and I (aged around 10) were allowed to crawl around a nice vintage MG sports car. The salesman said - I remember it clearly - that he was delighted to let us loose on tha car because one day we might be buying, and we'd remember him. He was right - but I'm afraid I would be surprised if he was still around. But if I lived in tha area, I'd certainly have considered dealing with that garage when I was a young man.

 

[Sybarite]

Ok, I know it's the silly season and as brokers we take the rough with the smooth.

But if you know the owner is giving up his Easter sailing for you to view his yacht.

If you know the broker is going to see you well out of office hours and make a 200 mile round trip and give up his family time for you.

If you know that the viewing is set up on the basis that it is for a cash purchase at or near the asking price.

And if you know that you had no intention of ever buying the yacht, if you know you do not even have the funds and have lied through you teeth and put a lot of decent, honest and helpful people out.

Why the **** would you do that to people. :disgust::disgust::disgust:


Warning -It's a small world the sailing world and if you are going to lie, be sure it's consistent and not to the wrong person.

You know who you are.

I can understand your frustration Jonic.

However, if I were buying a boat I would imagine I would like to visit quite a few before homing in on the short list. The first notion would be to get the ambiance of the boat to see if I would be happy on it, then, given that the type of boat was ok, I would then quickly like to assess the general condition of it. My ideal would be to look over the boat unassisted because, first I would like to be able to discuss it freely with Swmbo without the presençe of a third party.

After all that and the feeling is positive then I would like to get down to the nitty gritty with the owner or the agent. I too would not like to waste their time for what might only be an exploratory visit in the first instance. I have been able to do that once or twice where the owner has simply lent me the keys but I admit it's not very common.

I bought my present boat from a charterer who offered to let me use it for a couple of weeks. He said that if I bought it, the charter would be a present.

 

[Backwoodsman]

Jonic, I did recently buy a used boat. I knew exactly what I wanted and narrowed down to a short list of three, between two brokers a hundred miles apart and travelled prepared to visit both yards.
The first broker had two of the boats listed. The sales particulars for the first boat, obviously prepared by the owner, claimed it was immaculately maintained and in first class condition. The brokers face fell when he saw my checklist and fell even further when he watched me waggle the prop shaft about ! It was all downhill from there, with pretty much everything being in a tired condition. It transpired that a friend of the owner who lived locally , did the 'professional maintenance'. I made an offer based on what I felt it would take to bring her back to spec. The owner later called the broker back rejecting the offer.
The second boat was in good condition, as reflected in the particulars. We agreed a price and shook hands on it in the cockpit.
The Brokers happy, I'm happy, its the guy with the unrealistic view on what condition his boat is really in, who needs to take a reality check.

 

[Swanrad2]

People aren't' stupid, they instinctively know when somebodies tying to screw them over. All salesmen think the punters are just 'plain dumb'. Of course some are!

So from politicians, to salesmen of all sorts, there is a form of deception going on. It is not a straight forward relationship like ' i like you, we share the same interests', it's more like 'I'm nice to you, so I can get all you money'

Who's going to like someone who's always running a hidden agenda?

So like you say :
definitely!

Utter, utter, utter, utter cobblers.

Without salespeople commerce doesn't work. There are good and there are bad, this is like saying all sailors are rich, pampered toffs.

Everyone who owns, runs or manages a business is a Salesperson - I say again commerce doesn't work without salespeople, you wouldn't have had a job and each and every one of us would sale the same boat.

 

[Swanrad2]

Utter, utter, utter, utter cobblers.

Without salespeople commerce doesn't work. There are good and there are bad, this is like saying all sailors are rich, pampered toffs.

Everyone who owns, runs or manages a business is a Salesperson - I say again commerce doesn't work without salespeople, you wouldn't have had a job and each and every one of us would sale the same boat.

Sorry it has been a long day - sail.

 

[rustybarge]

Sorry it has been a long day - sail.

Please don't take me seriously.
I'm just playing 'agent provocateur'.......

 

[jonic]

Please don't take me seriously.
I'm just playing 'agent provocateur'.......

Please don't.

You are genuinely upsetting people and life is way too short.

 

[Elessar]

Ok, I know it's the silly season and as brokers we take the rough with the smooth.

But if you know the owner is giving up his Easter sailing for you to view his yacht.

If you know the broker is going to see you well out of office hours and make a 200 mile round trip and give up his family time for you.

If you know that the viewing is set up on the basis that it is for a cash purchase at or near the asking price.

And if you know that you had no intention of ever buying the yacht, if you know you do not even have the funds and have lied through you teeth and put a lot of decent, honest and helpful people out.

Why the **** would you do that to people. :disgust::disgust::disgust:


Warning -It's a small world the sailing world and if you are going to lie, be sure it's consistent and not to the wrong person.

You know who you are.

You have a good rep on here. Deserved I hope. I have never viewed one of your boats.

Im afraid though that i have had much time wasted by brokers. Over exaggerating, over valuing or not understanding what they're selling.

Unfortunately you have chosen to play the game with such brokers. Being tarred with the same brush may be inevitable.

 

[jonic]

You have a good rep on here. Deserved I hope. I have never viewed one of your boats.

Im afraid though that i have had much time wasted by brokers. Over exaggerating, over valuing or not understanding what they're selling.

Unfortunately you have chosen to play the game with such brokers. Being tarred with the same brush may be inevitable.

No I haven't chosen to play any games with anyone.

I spent eight years bluewater cruising and living the dream.

It's my passion. I love to share it and help those wanting to do the same.

I have absolutely no time for time wasting brokers, sellers or buyers or anyone who treats people badly.

Bluewater cruising brings out the very best values in people (you won't survive if it doesn't )

I bring those values and integrity to my business.

In fact the business is deeply rooted in them.

I have no time for anyone who thinks differently.

Sailing and boats are an absolute privilege that only a few of us get to enjoy.

I never forget that.

http://www.jryachts.com/category/testimonials

 

[jordanbasset]

When we were looking to buy our boat we did look at a number of different makes and models before we decided on the specific model we wanted. With a couple of exceptions most of the brokers we saw were good, we did tell them during the early stages that we were not in a position to buy and it was very much research and they were fine.
When we had got to the position where we knew the make and model of boat we wanted we saw 5 boats over 3 days but bought the boat we first saw 6 months previously.
Broker was good and all went smoothly.
In addition although I have never used Jonic, his help on this forum is excellent and he also assisted me, I would have used him to sell my boat if I had not managed to sell it in Greece.

 

[capsco]

uricanejack

I have been in sales for 27 years 10 of which are in yacht sales and have met more timewasters than you can imagine and have a thicker skin than a rhino.

Just looking is fine.

But what I can't tolerate is someone who knows he is seriously upsetting a families holiday plans, has been well briefed on the situation but lies his *rse off to get what he wants because he is on holiday in the area and can't be *rsed to come at a more suitable time because he was not and is not ever going to buy the yacht because he doesn't even have the money.

Do you know for a fact that he does not have the money?
Do you know if I have the money?

 

[jonic]

Do you know for a fact that he does not have the money?
Do you know if I have the money?

Yes i do know for an absolute fact he had no funds and no intention of buying and did not give a toss about putting out the owner.

It is not on.

Imagine if he had done it to you.

I don't know what you mean abut you having the money?

He knew he was seriously disrupting the owners plans.

He confirmed when quizzed that he was serious.

...and guess what we have now had the inevitable email about the boat being not quite right.

All phone calls to him are not being answered.

Fortunately through a third party we had a tip off but it was too late to get the owners holiday sailing back on track.

But going back to my original question.

Why would you do that to decent honest people?

Isn't the sailing community the last refuge of gentlemanly behaviour and integrity?

 

[Blueboatman]

I was told there is some merit in placing the vendor boat close to the brokers base if it is at all specialist..
At least the broker can be on hand, at reasonable times.
I see no point in inconveniencing an existing owners bank holiday just for A N Other first viewing too

But I am not a broker , I dunno

As a buyer I have been the lucky beneficiary from being consistent, polite, courteous, straightforward and honest, more than once.

A win win all round I suspect.

Quality AND fair, but not cheep cheep!

Never had a problem or regret using agents to buy and sell houses either. I wonder if its a personality thing in the end...