Dilemma- Small Yanmar diesel

[garymalmgren]

Hi Double Ender

You have 6 choices. (Maybe more that I haven't covered)
1, Don't buy the boat.
2. Buy the boat and new engine.
3. Buy the boat and used engine.
4. Buy the boat and have the engine professionally rebuilt.
5. Buy the boat and repair the non-starting fault.
6. Buy the boat and rebuild the engine yourself.

If you decide to buy the boat you are dealing with
But... the boat has been ashore for 2 years and the 1GM10 has not been run. Now it won't start.
The causes for non starting are usually fuel or compression related.
You mention;
The low intervention problems have all been investigated, up to and including new injector nozzle.
Personally, I would have the head off before going for new a new nozzle.
I am not criticizing whoever took that route, just pointing out what I see.

I would go you option 5 and then (if unsuccessful) to option 6.
Even if you do not have a deep knowledge or experience with diesel (or any engine) this is a good time and place to start.
I feel for safety and a sense of security familiarity with your engine is a must.

An experienced and reputable engineer now says there is little compression, & the engine needs removal, head and sump off, piston rings and valves examined, bore potentially honed.
In an ideal world with a pocket full of money the above suggestion is correct. However there are things that you can check and repair yourself with out a full engine disassembly.
If the problem is not fuel ( as you have suggested) the next most likely culprit is valve seating. This can be checked and repaired quite simply with the engine in situ. All you need is a socket set. Remove the complete head and take it to an engine rebuild workshop.
Not a marine shop or a Yanmar shop. Somewhere that does diesel cars or trucks.

A new head gasket, refit the reconditioned head and start her up. Again in a perfect world.
If that doesn't solve the starting problem, move to option 6 with a removal, disassembly, inspection and rebuild.
The head will have been done already.

gary

 

[M Cuff]

As far as I know I have the original 1gm to the boat (1987) and it always started on the button. It was a bit smoky and so I had it rebuilt with 12 months warranty for about £1k (last year). Engine was taken out by the engineer on his own (27ft fin keel). Very simple engines which are often used in pilots and fishing boats and generally get a lot of abuse but keep going. Where is the boat?

 

[Refueler]

There's nothing wrong with Easy Start!

Depends who you talk to .... some reckon it can blow holes in pistons .. others reckon its explosive force is not kind to an engine .... some say that use of ES causes an engine to always need it ....

I don't know ... all the years of tractors .. boats ... all sorts of engines ... Easy Start has done its job. And I have had engines use it a lot - but never become dependent on it.

Of course before they changed WD40 ... that was another product you could use ... but now it doesn't work.

 

[Refueler]

One item that I know can really spoil the day on these small Yanmars and my Pal's engine was a perfect example ...

The small fuel pump is a strange affair and if interfered with can be a nightmare to sort - with engine not starting ! He took his off thinking he could clean / service it ... engine then failed to start ...
When he rec'd the replacement engine - he mentioned he would never touch that one's pump !! Anything else on the engine - fine ... but not that pump.

 

[pete]

Friend bought a boat that had been stood a while, the1GM wouldn't start and had low compression after lots of messing we managed to get it started and
he didn't have any more trouble with it during the several years he kept the boat.
I think the valves had slightly rusted and were not sealing causing low the compression and when we got it started it cleared the rust.
I like the 1GM's, there main weakness I would say is the exhaust bend perforating and the water pump leaking on the oil pipe both are easily preventable.

Unrelated but I began to have a starting problem on my 1GM that lasted over several weeks, when it did start it ran fine, after much trial and error I luckily solved the problem by removing the oil filler cap (engine not running) and with my finger through the filler hole feeling around under the injection pump felt a lever suddenly spring back that I think was connecting the governor to the pump and the slow starting problem never came back, I can only assume it wasn't enrichening the fuel on start up?

 

[oilyrag]

I've seen a boat that I like a lot. It is not a very commonly available type, and it is in sound condition: hull, decks, rig, sails, interior. The owner is a respectable and credible person.

But... the boat has been ashore for 2 years and the 1GM10 has not been run. Now it won't start. The low intervention problems have all been investigated, up to and including new injector nozzle. An experienced and reputable engineer now says there is little compression, & the engine needs removal, head and sump off, piston rings and valves examined, bore potentially honed. Not a huge job but quite significant.
So, let's assume that this procedure gets the engine running (it is about 10 years old +/- ) and it is succesfully reinstalled, should I buy the boat? I've only ever owned one inboard diesel, which was mine from new. I knew exactly how it had been treated and maintained, and I had confidence in it. This engine isn't old, but it has had several owners and I've no idea about its history.
Does this seem like a good idea? Bad idea? I just don't know. How 'good ' will the engine be after undergoing this procedure? Could there be other lurking problems caused by long idleness?
A new engine would be a very significant proportion of the boat's value. And I do not really want a project, but a useable sailing boat . . . . .

The most common reason for 1GMs not starting is low compression caused by a bent con rod caused by water entering the cylinder caused by a perforated exhaust elbow. They are good reliable little engines if maintained properly - e.g. the exhaust elbow is a service replacement item (ignore those who will tell you they've run one since before the war and never changed the elbow) So, all else being equal, negotiate with the seller on the cost to have your engineer overhaul the engine and job done.

 

[kieron riley]

we sold a boat in our club for fifty pounds ,it had a yanmar 1gm10 it hadn't been run for possibly ten years ,it had an oil pipe rotted from sitting in water cost i think £180 pounds (from Yanmar)local hydraulic supplies £25 new oil starter removed (it didn't work )about an hours work and it turned over emptied the fuel tank and new fuel. So for a couple of pints of oil a£25 pipe and new fuel ,the new owner took away the boat and sailed it to AYRE
sorry we did quirt a few squirts of oil down the inlet manifold to get it started for the first time ,then ran it for a while up and revs .the next day it started without any oil and again the next day and maybee a couple more times when i wasnt there ,and the next day it was sailed away.
My message being this engine you are talking of has not been left so long and a bit of oil in the inlet should start it(just raises the compression a bit) and in my experience it usually only takes the first start and run for a while to clear the problem ,if the rings are a bit gunged giving low compression the engine run for a while fast revs and slow seems to sort itself when the engine gets a bit of heat in it. IMHO

 

[Tranona]

Yes, that sometimes works. It is easy with the 1GM because you can use the decompressor to turn the engine over without firing to get oil circulating then squirt oil into the intake.

 

[kieron riley]

I must add , I also once helped a bloke in the club who's yammer wouldn’t start, not even with easy start!! . So first thought was a valve, I took the head off( one if not the easiest job I’ve ever undertaken) and found under the inlet valve a piece of god knows what quite hard oily and bendable, I cleaned up the valve and lapped it in ( well it’s looking at you so you might as well ) I put the head back on and thought I might as well give it a bit of a service , reset valve clearance removed the air filter , what the ??!! There was a sort of home made air filter , the old frame with a piece of sponge fastened around it . The paint dropped , the thing I found under the valve was the foam from the old filter , having been compressed to beyond recognition, how the engine had run at all is a mystery to me . But all is well now , and that was three years ago.

 

[kieron riley]

Penny dropped

 

[Biggles Wader]

Penny dropped

That can be expensive if it drops in the wrong place.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Thank you everyone. Very very useful

 

[dgadee]

If you buy and replace, don't get a Yanmar. Get a Beta. I regret putting in a Yanmar when the new B20 panel they use went. Around £1,000 to replace.

 

[DoubleEnder]

A bit of drift, but why are Beta engines so much cheaper in the USA? Does anyone know?
Beta Marine 14 Marine Diesel Engine
I think this does not include a gear box, and presumably there is some sort of sales tax. But that's a big difference.
And it isnt only Beta....
Yanmar 1GM10 Inboard Diesel Engine - Mss Motorsports

 

[DownWest]

A bit of drift, but why are Beta engines so much cheaper in the USA? Does anyone know?
Beta Marine 14 Marine Diesel Engine
I think this does not include a gear box, and presumably there is some sort of sales tax. But that's a big difference.
And it isnt only Beta....
Yanmar 1GM10 Inboard Diesel Engine - Mss Motorsports

Wow!
Fitted a new Beta 16 a couple of years ago (3?)and it was over double that.. Replaced a Yanmar 2GM20.
The OP's problem was another fix. Except the boat had been sitting for 11 yrs with the 1gm getting fresh water submerged (rain) The head O/H, as above, + a new exhaust valve got her going. The famous oil pipe had completely disintergrated. I made a fresh one from copper pipe and the old banjo ends.
Bit later the owner spotted a 1GM10 going for £1K so grabbed that, as he was worried about the old donk. We fitted that and still fine.
The yanmars are noisy old bangers, while the Betas far less so.

 

[Refueler]

I have to agree that my mates YSE version similar to 1GM is more noisy than my 2GM ... his has that single cylinder knock style sound ...

 

[Slowboat35]

You don't need to take the head off to see if a valve is stuck, just the rocker cover. It's the work of a few minutes but imho there's little chance of it being a sticky valve - that would most likely leave you no compression at all which you can feel by turning it over with the hand crank. By far the most likely cause of poor compression will be poor piston ring seal.
In your shoes I'd take the rocker cover off to ensure the correct operation of the valves and after refitting introduce a scant teaspoonfull of 3 in 1 oil into the cylinder via either the inlet manifold and a neoprene tube or by removing the injector, motor the engine over several times with the decompressor open, leave it for half an hour for the oil to get around the rings and then go for a start.
As said above the engine is light enough to hoik out with ease and removing the sump and head is a doddle if required.
The 1GM is a bulletproof little gem - the only thing against it is EP Barrus but the less said about those robbers the better.

 

[Halo]

As Slowboat said a small quantity of oil in the cylinder could get it going and once running things may look a lot better. For years the only way to start my MD1 was a squirt of engine oil into the cylinder using an oil can with a flexible nozzle.

 

[andsarkit]

I must add , I also once helped a bloke in the club who's yammer wouldn’t start, not even with easy start!! . So first thought was a valve, I took the head off( one if not the easiest job I’ve ever undertaken) and found under the inlet valve a piece of god knows what quite hard oily and bendable, I cleaned up the valve and lapped it in ( well it’s looking at you so you might as well ) I put the head back on and thought I might as well give it a bit of a service , reset valve clearance removed the air filter , what the ??!! There was a sort of home made air filter , the old frame with a piece of sponge fastened around it . The paint dropped , the thing I found under the valve was the foam from the old filter , having been compressed to beyond recognition, how the engine had run at all is a mystery to me . But all is well now , and that was three years ago.

The original foam filter on my 1GM disappeared into the engine just leaving the conical metal frame. I wasn't going to spend a fortune on an original Yanmar one and have the same thing happen again so I made one from the foam sold for rally car air filters and that has survived much better. Luckily there was no damage to the engine but I have rather lost faith in the quality of some Yanmar parts. It is the same story with the rusting oil pipes where a hydraulic shop will make up rustproof ones for a quarter the price. Apart from that it is a brilliant if noisy engine and always starts on the first revolution of the starter.