diesel

[farquart]

This is our first experience of winterising a diesel engine. We are now aware that we should have kept the tank full to avoid condensatiuon forming but now it has sat nearly empty for a few weeks we are not sure what to do. If we fill it up now will it be ok or should we try to drain it first?. Should we add something to the fuel to prevent a diesel bug getting into the engine?

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[duncan]

add Soltron, then fill up to mix thoroughly
I only know it worked for me - I had 2 other forumites on board for the weekend in May and the engine failed on our return. Stripping the fuel filters we had wonderfully jelly stuff like minature frogsspawn everywhere. I have difficulty getting fuel when I am afloat in teh winter because we go out fiahing before they open and come back after they close so the tank got down to 1/4 and was left there for most of the winter. Big tank - lots of condensation.
Spent the year using Soltron and havent had any evidence of anything in the filters since - and we didn't even drain the tank..
There may be other products out their that do the job/ a job; but this worked for me.
Only complaints are - (1) never could get the fancy measuring thingy on the bottle to work - solved by using a mini measure that also used for 2 stroke oil and (2) that the bottles cap leaked (I did put it back properly) loosing me half the contents.

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[ashanta]

You do not say what capacity of fuel you are holding. I only have a 10 gallon tank and as you describe , fill it up every winter when laying up. You should not have any problem filling the tank after it has been stood for a couple of weeks. I keep my tank well filled at all times during the season and as the tank is small I am purchasing new, clean fuel quite regularly. This action means that there is less chance of bugs breeding and keeps the system clean. I do not use any chemicals to prevent bugs but I have never had them present due to this action.
Tanks that do not get replenished regularly with clean fuel and left for long periods is the main culprit.

Regards.

Peter.

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[jimi]

I'd add Soltron or Fuelset. I've had diesel bug a couple of times despite keeping tank full and using reputable suppliers and its a real PIA. Better safe than sorry ..Soltron works for me.

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[Tam]

If you can get a length of plastic pipe through filler to bottom of tank you could suck out water[which will have settled,being heavier than diesel].Best to use a pump rather than the oral method, diesel tastes 'orrible!

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[Guest]

Owning a Petro Lab etc.

AND being a boat-owner with diesel engine etc. - often its not full and stands for sometimes long periods.
We have access to Bug testing gear and also treatments.

a) I do not use treatment on my boat.
b) I do not fill tank before storage etc.
c) I draw a sample maybe 1 time per year.

I read and digest a lot of what is written and have to comment :

a) Bugs are present in ALL diesels
b) Bugs are not only interested in water content, but also in Sulphur
c) The type of fuel pick-up actually has a lot to do with blockages and failures - it is not only the bugs itself.

So Bugs are presen in all stocks as evident from my work in testing various large supplies ex Refinery's and tank terminals that distibute out worldwide.
Water interface allows bugs to thrive, SRB Bugs like more sulphur than is generally the case in City Diesel but enough in 0.2% Red.
Fuel pick up if close to bottom of tank and also with open end looking down ...... it will pick up the dead bug sludge - the often seen black / brown gungey spawn ........ This will clog any filter very quickly.

My action is to keep free water content as low as possible in my tank, fuel pick up is from an upturned suction, I don't use biocide - not yet anyway - but I know there will be a time to, but I advise against its indiscriminate use ..... personal opinion.

To give example ....... good 'clean diesel will carry average of 100 cfu/ltr bugs, average will be about 300 cfu/ltr, out of spec. will be 1000 cfu/ltr or more. I have never seen 0 cfu/ltr yet !!!! In Venezuela - I regularly supervised shipments to Europe from tanks that had over a metre of dead bugs in bottom ..... those tanks were 15,000 tons each !!!!!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[ashanta]

Drain any water from the inline water seperator tap that should be fitted.

Regards.

peter..

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[starboard]

Just be advised that if you add any addative and run your eberspacher "FUELSET" is the only one tried and tested by eberspacher to cause no fouling problems of glowpin burner etc...found this out when had to change glowpin after only one yar and nice man at Eberspacher advised me of this!!!

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[LORDNELSON]

my tank is 50 gallons capacity. I try to make sure it is full all winter, but often in the past have left filling to the top of the tank for several weeks after lay-up. Usually I have to add about 10 gallons. This has been happening over the past five years; so far no problems. I do not use a biocide.

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[pvb]

Be on the safe side...

Add Soltron to your tank. It's the only thing which will stop bugs blocking your filter in extreme conditions. It won't wreck an Eberspacher. It's quick and simple. It doesn't cost much. But it's very, very effective.

Lots of people don't use biocides or bug-killers and, more often than not, they don't have any problems. Unfortunately, the big snag with diesel bug is that the real problems only manifest themselves when you least need them. When the sea's rough, and the fuel in the tank gets sloshed about a bit, and maybe you need to motor into a safe harbour. But, after a little while, the bug residue stirred up in the tank hits the filter and your engine coughs and dies. I've experienced it, and I wasn't thrilled.

Soltron seems to be the only additive which will eat up the sticky residue left by dead diesel bugs. Ordinary biocides kill the bugs, but leave the residue as a sticky mess on the bottom of the tank.

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[Trevor_swfyc]

It sounds as though you suspect you may have water in the tank and if it has been left virtually empty for the last month you will have. I would take the opportunity to drain down the diesel into a clear container direct from the tank outlet. If it is cloudy or hazy it is wet you may even see a lower water layer. Recycle the upper layer back into the tank via a filter funnel with a muslin filter, leave the drain open and collect in a second clear container you may have to repeat this process until you have removed all the debris from the tank. Then discard the last drainings and repeat with a gallon of fresh clean diesel, collect it in a clean container if it remains clear & bright you are ok to fill the tank with fresh diesel. Do not be tempted to use the drainings discard them.
I will stick my neck out and say if you can keep water out you will stop the bugs from multiplying and fouling up your system. If you doubt this put some fresh diesel in a dry glass container and leave it in the dark in the garage/shed check it again in the spring it should still be bug free!

All the best.
Trevor




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[Mirelle]

A question

If one has a tank containing a lot of city diesel, mixed with red, is it therefore less likely to get bugs in it, owing to lower sulphur content? I ask because I filled up with road diesel at one point late in the season.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: A question

The sulphur question is interesting as we still have high suphur diesel out here for both marina refuelling and automotive. It is just being reduced now but it averages 2,350 ppm sulphur whereas I think your automotive is very much lower than that and is supposed to be under 50 ppm by 2005.

However, bug fouling of diesel does not seem to be a big issue out here and I rarely hear of difficulties in pleasure or small commercial craft. Perhaps our warmer temperatures, though not much more so compared to South of England, reduces the propensity for condensation in tanks (it is humid here though and we get around 1.8 m/yr rainfall in Wellington and Auckland for instance) or the bugs like the cold - I don't know.

Maybe Nigel can take those on board in his comments.

Regards

John

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[DepSol]

Re: A question

Its the temp around the tank thats the problem not in the wter if engine is close to tank and tank not insulated then heat from engine stays in engine bay after engine is shut down keeping a consant temp whilst outside all is cooling down at the end of the day and moisture is being sucked in through the vents.

Therefore bugs have water and temperature perfect for growth.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[farquart]

draining prefilter

Thanks for the advice. We have been down & taken the filter out, it was full of black gunge as was warned.
We tried to drain the filter first through the drain hole in the bottom but the screw was jammed and snapped off. This is the second time this has happened and we are loathed to replace it again with the plastic screw supplied to us by Yanmar. Does anyone have a better solution.

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[pvb]

Drain plug...

If you have a common CAV-type filter, the plastic screws are not very satisfactory. But the good news is that you can get a metal drain plug. Try Lucas depots or ASAP Supplies.

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[Guest]

Eye-ball bug checks ...

Quality specification for diesel is far below eye-ball possibilities ..... the time you actually tell by eye is really when you start to collect dead bugs as gunge...... unless you have such a contamination that it is 'well blow me down' level !!!


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[Guest]

Re: A question

They all have bugs in .... city diesel has a tighter EN590 specification on it and due to lower levels of suspended moisture and also lower sulphur ..... you should have a better chance.

BUT note that ALL diesels have bugs .... it is unavoidable.

The Red is normally no worse than City in fact .... it depends on how old and how stored ..... NOT on original supplier. Also the user such as yourself, how often do you actually empty the tank, refill it, fresh stock etc. etc. Becuase a common mistake is to consinder that keeping the tank full is the answer .... a better one is actually the contents of the tank completely changing regularly ...... or in practical terms running the tank down low before refilling. But before you start that system - you ensure that your tank is clean and gunge free ....... Frequent tank change will keep fresh stock and less chance of old 'breeding'.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[Guest]

PPM

50 ppm is City Diesel (EN590)

0.2% ..... or 200ppm is Red Diesel.

So the quote you have given is near enough Agriculrural / Red Diesel stock. Remember Red is only 0.2% standard Gasoil with a red dye in for Customs and Excise ....

Bugs like warmth actually ..... when we test for them we incubate the petri for 5 days ........ looks 'orrible when you get a bad sample !!


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[Guest]

Re: A question

Most boats that I know do not have the tank that close to engine ... in fact is closer to hull sides and effect of water outside ...... a lot in fact with tank in forward section of boat .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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