Diesel vs Petrol 2011!

[ian38_39]

Ian, you may be used to using these typs of quantities of fuel with your twin petrol engines but we are not with our frugal diesel engine.

Think you may find if you ask the average boat owner how much fuel they use in a two week cruise it will be between £1000 and £2000, remember that on here most hours are done at sea and that bears no comparison to 600 hours of inland cruising. You are running a 25' single engined lightweight boat that will be considerably more frugal than the average, my figures were aimed at a 30-40' twin engine boat being used at sea. Last years cruise took in some 350 miles for us using £1200 of fuel and claiming absolutely nothing back for domestic use. If I am using diesel will I claim 60/40? of course I will, still does not alter the fact that technically it is tax fraud.

 

[ian38_39]

NHS, maybe over 50% of the staff are foreign but I think you may find they are still paid by UK plc and it is not an act of charity or supported by the governments of the people being treated by them. Fairly sure that the hospitals they are working in are provided by the UK NHS too.

At least they can claim 100% tax relief on the fuel they use as you don't see that many hospitals in the Solent, or the roads come to that.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

>>>
technically it is tax fraud
>>>
HMRC seem happy enough. I think its because the tax costs more to administer than it would collect.

The biggest tax fraud is in the amount that is collected and subsequently wasted and governments have that one down to a tee. Everything else pailes into insignificance.

In deference to the traditional rule on thread drift in Internet fora I must now accuse someone of being a Nazi, or at least liken some to a Nazi. Any volunteers?

 

[Kipper]

Excellent!

Yes spot on

 

[CX54WEK]

Think you may find if you ask the average boat owner how much fuel they use in a two week cruise it will be between £1000 and £2000, remember that on here most hours are done at sea and that bears no comparison to 600 hours of inland cruising. You are running a 25' single engined lightweight boat that will be considerably more frugal than the average, my figures were aimed at a 30-40' twin engine boat being used at sea. Last years cruise took in some 350 miles for us using £1200 of fuel and claiming absolutely nothing back for domestic use. If I am using diesel will I claim 60/40? of course I will, still does not alter the fact that technically it is tax fraud.

Not all of our cruising is inland, as you well know. If you rfigures are aimed at a specific target market maybe you should be a little more specific in putting that point across.

You made the choice to buy petrol knowing that their was no tax rebate on the fuel. No one forced you into it, so why the complaining about no rebate?Im sure you will be claiming 60/40 when you get your next boat which you have said will be diesel. Why the change to diesel if petrol is so good?

There is nothing fraudulent about following HMRC guidelines. They have suggested that a 60/40 split is what the average leisure boater will use and have also indicated that no one buying diesel at the 60/40 split will be investigated. The choice is of course entirely yours what you declare. Pay more tax if you wish, just dont complain at those who choose to follow the guidelines.

 

[cem]

calm down dear

 

[Kipper]

I used to run a 260 Chap with a 5.7efi went all over in the dam thing. used it most weekends only ever failed to start once and kept on park and launch.
Traded up to twin deisel cruiser ok for first few years as deisel was cheap.
Once deisel went north of one pound a litre, compounded by rising marina berthing costs and insane service and spare parts costs, it no longer made sense. It had to go.
Next boat hopefully will be sub 25ft V8 petrol on a trailer. Bring back the fun into boating even if use it less, least i will be able to maintain it for sensible moneyand enjoy the 5 days of sunshine and no wind we get here and i will be able to get in and out of the marina but that was covered in another thread.

 

[CX54WEK]

I used to run a 260 Chap with a 5.7efi went all over in the dam thing. used it most weekends only ever failed to start once and kept on park and launch.
Traded up to twin deisel cruiser ok for first few years as deisel was cheap.
Once deisel went north of one pound a litre, compounded by rising marina berthing costs and insane service and spare parts costs, it no longer made sense. It had to go.
Next boat hopefully will be sub 25ft V8 petrol on a trailer. Bring back the fun into boating even if use it less, least i will be able to maintain it for sensible moneyand enjoy the 5 days of sunshine and no wind we get here and i will be able to get in and out of the marina but that was covered in another thread.

Im not sure why people assume they cant maintain their own diesel engine for sensible money. If you can maintain a petrol engine you can maintain a diesel. They are not some mystery item that only dealers can touch.

Rising berthing costs affect everybody, both petrol and diesel, not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

 

[[2068]]

If you can maintain a petrol engine you can maintain a diesel.

True, but it's harder work with twins. You get to the point of "job done", then you get to do it all over again!
Also, the chance of something going wrong, somewhere, is doubled.

It's a bit like running two boats strapped together

 

[ricky_s]

CX54WEK....

....is that your number plate from your car?

 

[[2068]]

Female drivers need a method of making sure they get into the right car in the car park.

(runs and hides in the nearest cellar)

 

[Phill]

Im not sure why people assume they cant maintain their own diesel engine for sensible money. If you can maintain a petrol engine you can maintain a diesel. They are not some mystery item that only dealers can touch.

With all due respect, your diesel is a very different beast to the diesel engines now found in the 2011 boats that are being discussed. Very high pressure common rail systems that are ECU controlled are very complex and expensive when things go wrong.

 

[Pennpromo]

Petrol V Diesel in 2011

So I own a Hunton 36 with twin Mercruiser 377 Magnums; here's my arguement:
I needed new engines, and decided on petrol for the following reasons:
1). A pair of new Mercruiser Magnums, 320HP each 377 Cubic Inch, 6.1 litre, multi port fuel injection, two year warranty £36K the pair.
2). A pair of Yanmar 315 HP diesels, circa £55K the pair
3). A pair of Volvo D6s, circa £60K the pair.
Now I know that the diesel option will be worth more long term, but 24K is a lot of fuel and I have a boat that sounds awesome, is much lighter, goes faster and actually isn't, (realtively) that thirsty:
30MPH, 64 Litres per hour
40MPH, 82 LPH
50MPH, 122 LPH
60MPH 158 LPH.
(Figures ffrom mercury Smartcraft instruments).
Yes, before you say it, at 60 MPH and say £1.40 a litre that's £220 per hour but don't forget that you have done 60 miles by then !
(Having said that at Port Hamble on Monday it was £1.61 a litre !).
It's never going to be cheap to run but then again we don't go that far.
Man maths or value ???

 

[Phill]

....is that your number plate from your car?

Silver Nissan Almera...................PETROL.

 

[neale]

1497cc, taxed until 30th September 2011

 

[ricky_s]

0-60 in the same day!!!!

 

[landlockedpirate]

So I own a Hunton 36 with twin Mercruiser 377 Magnums; here's my arguement:
I needed new engines, and decided on petrol for the following reasons:
1). A pair of new Mercruiser Magnums, 320HP each 377 Cubic Inch, 6.1 litre, multi port fuel injection, two year warranty £36K the pair.
2). A pair of Yanmar 315 HP diesels, circa £55K the pair
3). A pair of Volvo D6s, circa £60K the pair.
Now I know that the diesel option will be worth more long term, but 24K is a lot of fuel and I have a boat that sounds awesome, is much lighter, goes faster and actually isn't, (realtively) that thirsty:
30MPH, 64 Litres per hour
40MPH, 82 LPH
50MPH, 122 LPH
60MPH 158 LPH.
(Figures ffrom mercury Smartcraft instruments).
Yes, before you say it, at 60 MPH and say £1.40 a litre that's £220 per hour but don't forget that you have done 60 miles by then !
(Having said that at Port Hamble on Monday it was £1.61 a litre !).
It's never going to be cheap to run but then again we don't go that far.
Man maths or value ???

With a boat like that, it wouldn't matter if petrol was £5 per litre, twin V8' s is the only way to go.

 

[Phill]

There are so many different parameters that affect the petrol V diesel argument.

In my experience, cost is the major one but age and use affect the outcome as well.
All my boating was done on the Upper Thames and initially I wanted a diesel engine. With our first boat which we bought in 1987, a Freeman 22, we had no choice. Petrol or petrol.

When we bought our second, a 1979 princess 32, we found the best condition boat we could find and that had a single petrol which at that time was a relatively modern Volvo engine. So that’s the one we bought. Smooth, quiet and fume free. I have a friend who at that time would only have diesel and bought a 60’s Freeman 32 with old worn Parsons (I think) engines.
He paid more for his boat than I did and spent all weekend cruising engulfed in diesel smoke. Still he had diesel and that’s all that mattered to him.

After coming back to boating some years later, we looked at Princess 33’s and again the best example we found had twin Volvo petrol’s which were quite worn. Bought the boat and during the first year looked at replacing with diesels. The cost was prohibitive to use proper marine engines so I pulled out the petrol’s and fully rebuilt them for very little cost.

As a garage owner, I now see modern diesel engines which are starting to have very costly problems at relatively low mileages. If these engines are used in the marine environment, then I would prefer to pay the petrol running costs.

All of the above is my opinion only and based on my inland usage.

PS. 28 years of using three petrol boats and none of them exploded once!

 

[Phill]

1497cc, taxed until 30th September 2011

Dont forget its the S model.

 

[lovezoo]

PS. 28 years of using three petrol boats and none of them exploded once!

That's not the point! There is a theoretical risk of explosion that can be used to justify spending more money on a slower version of the same boat.

Anyway, you can cheaply add the risk of explosion back in to your diesel boat, by adding a gas canister or two for the cooker:

A Motor Cruiser is currently on fire in the Solent and in danger of explosion.

Solent Coastguard received a Mayday call at approximately 4:30pm from the one of the two crew aboard a 35foot Motor Cruiser Lynx Effect reporting they had a fire on board in the engine space, and needed assistance. They were anchored in Stokes Bay.

Gosport and Fareham Inshore Rescue Services (GAFIRS) were requested to launch their independent lifeboat and four Police boats were tasked to the scene. Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service are currently standing by at the GAFIRS slipway and the Police are assisting with a 200metre exclusion zone that has been put in place. Coastguard Rescue Officers from Hill Head are on scene assisting with the exclusion zone.

Paul Marlow, Watch Officer, Solent Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre, says:

The two people aboard are safe and well and are currently on one of the police boats. We know there are two gas bottles on board one of which has exploded and we are awaiting the second to explode before approaching the vessel and dealing with the fire.