Diesel tanks - Laying up for the winter

[andyroo]

Hi there,

Does anyone have any good advice on what you should do with diesel tanks for the winter. I know you should keep the tank full to avoid condensation but is there anything else I should be doing?

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

 

[andrewbritton]

when did you buy the fuel and from which company? Do you know if they have put the antifreeze additive in?

Good to keep it full. Also keep the cover closed and locked

 

[andyroo]

Fuel has been in the tank for up to 6 months now. Fuel bought from the local Marina, think they use BP.

Not sure about the antifreeze, is this something you can add to the Diesel, and if so what do you recommend?

 

[Guest]

Duh .... WOT ????

<<Do you know if they have put the antifreeze additive in? >>

And what additive is that ???? I've been additive business for quite some time and thats a new one on me .... please let me know ...... ??

 

[Guest]

Reasonable care ...

Which means top up tank after draining of any water from bottom .... siphon if necessary.

Me - actually I leave my tank year after year and have been lucky ... one day the luck will run out.

The additives that kill bugs / prevent can be added to try and insure against later problems.

Emptying the tank can be as problem as having fuel in ... as you will never get all fuel out - unless you siphon and clean.

So for me - its check no water at bottom, fill up and leave it alone..... ( I have been known to test my fuel with Fuel Dips to se if bug activitry has increased ..... NOTE I say INCREASED - as they are there - it just varies how much ....)

Last point about supply - I hear this comment about 'where you get your supply' ..... what does that have to do with it ? Anywhere that has a reasonable turn-over of fuel should in reality have less problem ... the external visible condition of tank / jetty etc. bears no relation to the fuel ... I know farmers tanks that are ex- soviet army rusted heaps and they are delivering fine diesel without problem for his tractors etc. AND who supplies ?? When you consider that many company's source from similar / same - the company who trucks it in is really just a name............

 

[moodycruiser]

On a lighter note (no pun intended) you could raft up alongside me and transfer it into my tank and I'll "look after it" for you over the winter . /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Freebee]

antifreeze- not in diesel, there are different grades for winter and summer use to make winter starting easier, but this is not applicable if you are not going to use the fuel during the winter. The only fuel that gets antifreeze is military avaition fuel.

 

[andrewbritton]

The winter grade gas oil and road derv has an additive to stop crystals forming in the fuel. This keeps the fuel in better quality while being stored.

I should have been more clear that it is not really an antifreeze but an additive which is active when cold, protecting the fuel from Jack Frost.

this is normally added to the fuel in october so if your delivery happened after then you will be fine.

 

[Guest]

Summer / Winter grades

The additive that changes diesel from Summer grade to winter is CFPP and another that is sometimes added additionally is Cloud Pt additive.

The CFPP lowers the temp that filters clog up in winter due to crystals forming as temp reduces in the diesel. The Cloud Pt - reduces the temp that the diesel starts to turn whiter in colour - a characteristic that turns punters away from buying.

If you look on the Filling station pump (UK anyway) - you will see a sticker which quotes - EN590 - and guaranteeing winter diesel to -15C ..... this is CFPP specification. In some more north regions the temp. reqt goes far lower than that and then you can get to conditions that require an 'antifreeze' agent .... but NOT in UK or other moderate N. European climes.

As to not applicable if you do not use in winter - in fact not 100% true - as the precipitate can in some circumstances fail to dissolve completely again .. leaving behind a small amount on surfaces. Generally though movement of the fuel will reconstitute the precipitate ... along with the increased temperature of spring / summer.

 

[andrewbritton]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

So have we helped this guy at all? (!) Does he even care any more!

 

[Guest]

CFPP ....

Cold Filter Plugging Point .......

This is the temp that crystals start to form and clog the filters and in so doing literally stop fuel flow and engine stops. The addition of such additive has nothing to do with storing the fuel - which is stored in Russia / Baltics and many other cold regions as is without additives. The additives added when loading ships etc. by company's like mine.
Generally the CFPP / Cloud Pt / Lubricity additive is added to large amounts of gasoil (diesel to you lot) ... typically 30,000 - 70,000 ton lots .... just a little more than your average filling station handles. For example a typical Gasoil stock is about -7C CFPP specification before additive. Normal UK EN590 Gasoil stock requires -15C for winter use .... we would add a calculated amount of additive continuously while the gasoil is being pumped via terminal pipelines to the ship. This way the additive is mixed in the turbulent flow of the pipeline and also the entire cargo get's its shot.

Anything else ???? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[andyroo]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

Hi Andrew,

Kind of! I now know everything there is to know about summer and winter diesels, but very little about how to keep your fuel tank from clogging up, other than trying to syphon out the water and regularly using the Diesel within it. However, thanks for all your help, I have learnt something new today!!!

Cheers and have a good weekend

Andrew

 

[catmandoo]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

Well I have a fuel tank tank whichis dirty and contaminated with whatever bug or virus . In two weeks time I shall empty it and clean it out manually . Try to recover most of the fuel . clean out the fuel lines manually and refill tank up to the top with old and new diesel . plus additive/s . Wait 2 months and then try it out on engine . If ok I will extoll the merits of product X and denigrate the merits of product Y.

if neither work I will input a few cc's of Dalwhinnie 10 year old which is the final relief for any persistent virus

 

[Guest]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

Recovery of old fuel ..... basically let it stand in opaque container with bio added to kill whatever is in it ...... as its diesel it need not be gas-tight. Most sediments and crud will settle out and all thats left to do then is to carefully pour or siphon out leaving a reasonable level of fuel over the sediments. Then you filter the rest so that sediments etc. are not carried over. You can filter whole lot if you like the wait !!
Now add some bio again to be sure. Let it stand again ....

Care and you have good fuel to use ... if you don't feel its good enough - then pm me and I'll tell you where my fuel filler cap is !!

Tank should be bio'd basically before emptying with the old fuel - its best medium to use to do it and it starts the process to kill in the fuel .... make sure it gets all round the tank.
Empty .... steam clean if possible ... if not then a good wash out with hot water ... dry out and use bio in first few fill ups ....

Cleaning fuel lines can be done via a 12V car tyre compressor ... high pressure low volume.

Good luck

 

[silverseal]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

I thought that the additive in diesel fuel in the winter was to prevent wax formation in sub zero conditions - remember the very cold winter of 1987, when I had to do most of the work because I had a petrol vehicle and most of my colleagues had diesels, which wax-ed up and would not start. The coldest in Kent where I used to live was -16 Celsius not a lot as compared with forumites who live in Scandinavia or the continent of Europe

 

[Guest]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

Mmm I think if you read carefully my posts - that you will find that your post is close to what I have said .... the post that claimed that additive was for storage purposes was incorrect.

UK has a specification of -15C for winter - as it very rarely drops even near to that .....

I shouldn't say this - but to drop the temp. tolerance of diesel even lower .... acouple of degrees anyway - you can add a small amount of clean kerosine ......... this reduces the waxing even further.

Problem is waxing is one thing, crystalisation is another ..... etc. etc. But in the end same results - clogged filters etc.

 

[david_bagshaw]

Re: Reasonable care ...

[ QUOTE ]
( I have been known to test my fuel with Fuel Dips to see...

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does the average punter get these from?

oh and how do you use them, as in on a long stick to get to the bottom or what?

Many thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Summer / Winter grades

Problem is waxing is one thing, crystalisation is another ..... etc. etc. But in the end same results - clogged filters etc.

I'm getting a bit confused here....I have only ever heard of 'waxing' and when 'crystallisation' was mentioned I assumed that it was a different term for the same thing. What is the difference between 'waxing' and 'crystallisation' in the context of diesel in cold temperatures?

David

 

[Guest]

Re: Reasonable care ...

Fuel dips are a 'pre-coated' bacterial growth medium on literally a short lolli-pop stick..... all inside a nice little clear plastic container. Thew whole lot being sterile.

They come in box's of ten and are about a tenner each. Sorry - don't know any source of individual ones.

Method .... many different ways to do it but best is :

1) Elastic band the dip to a stick and put into tank, DO NOT SWISH it around hard ... but gently move it around in the fuel .... take out, shake off excess and place back in container and put lid back on.
2) Extract sample from tank and again dip the slide into the fuel - but sample container must be clean. Shake off excess etc.
3) This is best way to determine suppliers quality .... ask the guy from Marina / wherever you are refueling from to allow you to 'wash' fuel over the slide while he's filling you tank .... you only need a few seconds of fuel to run all over the slide - messy, but this gives results BEFORE your tank !! Shake off excess etc.

Now place near warm radiator ... keeping the temp up ........ I forget the lab required temp. but its WARM !! (We actually stick 'em into incubators !) The whole process takes up to 5 days .....

After 1 day if contamination is severe, 'orrible spots will appear ..... after 2 days you will have some spots anyway, 3 days is good indicator of level of contamination, 4 days is probably "not worth going anymore as it looks foul !", 5 days in the bin !!!!

The dip has two mediums on it .... different each side to indicate SRB and 'other' Bacteria respectively.

The box contains a leaflet explaining the whole process and also comparison charts for level of contamination.

In some cases where you think that problems may be - you could use method 1 and 3 to determine blame and possible discussion with supplier ........ BUT you must be sure that all is witnessed and conducted in good manner.

As to supplies of the Fuel Dips ...... there are various and you have to be careful - as many are designed for aqueous solutions - not oil............... one supplier is :

http://www.oriondiagnostica.fi/asp/syste...S=1&C=23331 But may only supply industrially ??

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Reasonable care ...

Nigel, that link didn't work for me and when I looked at the site's home page I couldn't see any section on fuel testing. Could you check the link?

David