Diesel Hybrid yacht ... brilliant explanation.

[AngusMcDoon]

I'm curious how much the batteries will weigh, and how much space they will occupy,,, compared to the original internal ballast.
Can they safely cope with seawater sloppping about? Can they be lifted at sea to fix a leak?
Will this classic style gaff cutter be covered in ugly solar panels?
I think a Beta factory 240v alternator, expensive house batteries and an invertor would have been better.

1) Depends how far you want to go on battery power. If it's more than a few miles it will be a lot and a lot.
2) Lithium reacts violently with water but marine batteries will be well sealed. The connections might not be though.
3) They would need to be securely fixed and connected. Wouldn't want to move them around at sea.
4) Even if it is it won't help much in our climate. A boat like that will need a lot of power to move. What size diesel would it have? 60 kW maybe? Covering the decks with solar panels might generate a few kW for a few hours on a good day in the UK.

It's hard enough keeping a fridge going in the UK with solar, let alone propulsion or cooking.

 

[dunedin]

Have a look at the site "Sailing Uma" on Youtube.

They threw out the diesel and substituted an electric motor along with a bank of lithium batteries. Cooking is by induction and they have an electric oven.

There is a lot of hype about Sailing Uma’s electric drive, but few actually look at the maths and practicalities.

I can’t remember the precise figures (somebody may choose to lookup) but I saw reference to a maximum theoretical range of 30NM - bit only if keep speed to 3 knots, in a flat calm and no adverse tide. So as power used goes up hugely above 3 knots, probably about 5NM punching into a gentle tide or headwind.
And probably insufficient power to get out of a lee anchorage in a gale (like an old sailing ship).

Simple comparison of range is
- 1 litre of diesel equivalent energy to 10kWh battery
- 1 litre of diesel equivalent to circa 3kWh battery after allowing for ICE inefficiencies
What size is Sailing Uma’s battery bank? What size is your diesel tank?

PS. But if cost is not an object, a diesel electric HYBRID drive would definitely be my ideal power train for a yacht

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The most compelling use case would be for a catamaran which could have 1 engine instead of 2. All the technology is available, but I'm not aware of any manufacturer that offers it. I suspect the cost would be huge and the weight and space saving minimal, or maybe even worse, compared to separate engines. It's been touted in the past for trucks, but has never taken off. Is its use widespread anywhere other than railway locomotives?

Its in use for certain warships and other specialised craft. Again it enable engines to be mounted where Cof G is without long prop shaft.

 

[halcyon]

How much does it cost compared to a bog standard diesel? As an example, a hybrid diesel electric system is available as an option for a new Broadblue 346, a 33' catamaran, much smaller and lighter than that boat, yet it costs £86k for the hybrid system. That's beyond the reach of most buyers.

Other than that the usual problems will apply - batteries have a very low power density, both for weight and volume, even lithium ones. What is the speed/range on battery power for a hefty boat like that? 3 knots for 20 minutes maybe? And as discussed on another thread - a propeller designed for propulsion makes a poor turbine, and vice versa.



Because adding an engine to an engineless boat was a step change in functionality and the cost/benefit analysis (not called that at the time, but still would have been done) showed that the cost was worthwhile. However, putting in a hybrid system is not an increase in functionality over a plain diesel system, and of questionable environmental benefit when looking at the extra environmental cost of producing the system. The cost/benefit analysis would also be dubious.

A lot depends on planned use, in this case he plans to have Tally Ho for long distance cruising, so under sail 24/7, so prop generator makes sense. But day sailing and planning to use the electric drive as a main power option it makes less sense, or at least that systems at the moment.

Brian

 

[halcyon]

Its in use for certain warships and other specialised craft. Again it enable engines to be mounted where Cof G is without long prop shaft.

But it is a standard diesel drive system with motor/generator running off the prop shaft, allowing charge under power or under sail via prop or shore or solar/wind, propulsion via engine or electric motor for short term or emergency. Flexible system for long range cruising.

Brian

 

[Sybarite]

Hybrid seems very OTT. But a deisel electric installation does seem more sensible. Put the engine where the weight is best. Then mount the drive somewhere totally different with an azipod that can be fully retracted from the water. That way you get a properly efficient prop for motoring and smooth hull for sailing.

I remember looking at a hybrid test on a motor boat. IIRC they would have had to do something like 500k miles to amortize the extra cost.

 

[johnalison]

I'm also accused of being a carbon burning dinosaur. That is also untrue. I believe in getting carbon emissions down but I believe that boat propulsion is not the best way to spend the money needed to do it. Much better, for example, would be subsidised or free house insulation upgrade for everyone who wanted it as a simple, doable solution with a positive cost/benefit.

You make the important point that money and energy are interconvertable. An efficient system that costs a lot of money is actually worse for the environment than a cheap dirty one.

 

[TernVI]

Leo gets an average of 400,000 views per episode, second only to La Vagabond. Delos by comparison only get 150,000 these days. His income stream will easily be sufficient to fund this project.

The Youtube output IS the project.

The whole motivation of this kind of technocrap is to flog advertising hits.

Any fool can do the maths of HP and watts and hours of sunlight etc etc.
There is a talent in making people sit through hours of video pointlessness.

These entertainers are under no obligation to be balanced or even accurate.
If it amuses you to watch it, that's fine, it's no different from watching Top Gear or a daytime TV show about people doing up cars or houses with all the dull bits left out.

 

[38mess]

The Youtube output IS the project.

The whole motivation of this kind of technocrap is to flog advertising hits.

Any fool can do the maths of HP and watts and hours of sunlight etc etc.
There is a talent in making people sit through hours of video pointlessness.

These entertainers are under no obligation to be balanced or even accurate.
If it amuses you to watch it, that's fine, it's no different from watching Top Gear or a daytime TV show about people doing up cars or houses with all the dull bits left out.

Quite right. I read the other day that sv Delos, with just over half a million subscribers, but less views earn over half a million us dollars last year through YouTube videos, £14000 per video...this guy has less subscription but many more views. That's what the advertising people want I guess.

 

[halcyon]

Quite right. I read the other day that sv Delos, with just over half a million subscribers, but less views earn over half a million us dollars last year through YouTube videos, this guy has less subscription but many more views. That's what the advertising people want I guess.

Have you followed the work Tally Ho for the last 2 years ? quite interesting just what goes into rebuilding a wooden boat. If you look into his site he has many funding options running plus sponsors.

For what he plans to do, this power option is very interesting, without him the Tally Ho would have been firewood, what is peoples problem these days ?

Brian

 

[38mess]

Have you followed the work Tally Ho for the last 2 years ? quite interesting just what goes into rebuilding a wooden boat. If you look into his site he has many funding options running plus sponsors.

For what he plans to do, this power option is very interesting, without him the Tally Ho would have been firewood, what is peoples problem these days ?

Brian

No I have only just discovered him. He looks very capable and he seems to have discovered a very profitable way to partly fund the reconstruction of tally ho.
Nothing wrong in that, and nothing wrong with people pointing it out.?

 

[Hacker]

Leo is more than just capable! He is an extremely good builder and sailor. A colleague of mine is an ex girlfriend and she says he is absolutely fearless.

 

[halcyon]

Leo is more than just capable! He is an extremely good builder and sailor. A colleague of mine is an ex girlfriend and she says he is absolutely fearless.

It worth watching all 87 if you are interested in wooden boats, or just yachts, earlier episodes also covered his work to earn money at the start of the rebuild, shipwright or delivery skipper. Sometimes I find him hard going, but just for the amount of effort and skill he puts into it. But he will end up with a lovely yacht that is worth a lot of money, but then we all have that option.

I liked when he was thinking how to get Tally Ho back to the UK when finished, options, sail back via Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope

Brian

 

[oldmanofthehills]

A mans brilliance in one field does not guarantee sound judgement in another.

Or maybe he is just trying to generate youtube income by doing novel solutions without true regard for the ecological and economic downsides.

 

[mjcoon]

Have you followed the work Tally Ho for the last 2 years ? quite interesting just what goes into rebuilding a wooden boat. If you look into his site he has many funding options running plus sponsors.

For what he plans to do, this power option is very interesting, without him the Tally Ho would have been firewood, what is peoples problem these days ?

Brian

I found it interesting enough to send a modest donation a year or two back. I've missed seeing his parrot, though...

 

[halcyon]

I found it interesting enough to send a modest donation a year or two back. I've missed seeing his parrot, though...

Parrot makes an appearance near the end of EP87, still alive.

Brian

 

[Gary Fox]

A mans brilliance in one field does not guarantee sound judgement in another.

Or maybe he is just trying to generate youtube income by doing novel solutions without true regard for the ecological and economic downsides.

Personally I think all those batteries, and the pandering to household levels of 240AC consumption, are a Bad Idea for various reasons, and if you want to be both 'green', and seamanlike, a far simpler installation would be better.

 

[mjcoon]

Parrot makes an appearance near the end of EP87, still alive.

Brian

OK, I hadn't played to the bitter end. And the parrot is just in his own (donations) sequence, not in context as usual, but is good to see!

 

[halcyon]

OK, I hadn't played to the bitter end. And the parrot is just in his own (donations) sequence, not in context as usual, but is good to see!

Around 33 minutes sitting on the fork truck in background.

Brian

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I'm not sure everyone who is commenting knows much about either Leo or the project. I would advise watching from the beginning. It's probably the best wooden boat building channel on YouTube along with "Tips from a shipwright". Both are professional boat builders rather than Uma/sail life style YouTube bodgers.

He's restoring a classic yacht to the very highest standards. At the same time he is producing a very watchable video record of the restoration.

As for the diesel electric parallel hybrid power solution. I 100% agree with it. It's not new tech. It offers two propulsion systems in one and two generation systems in one.