Diesel Hybrid yacht ... brilliant explanation.

[Frogmogman]

I'm a fan of this whole project. I love what Leo has done, and have watched every episode. I admire how uncompromising he has been about making the boat as good as it can possibly be, often eschewing the cheap or easy way of getting things done.

I think his choice of auxiliary power reflects his thoughtful approach, and is consistent with his whole philosophy of trying to get it right.

Leo is also an accomplished broadcaster. I think a lot of people who have a dig at people like him or the SLV couple fail to appreciate how difficult it is to put out such high quality, well produced content.

 

[mjcoon]

Around 33 minutes sitting on the fork truck in background.

Brian

Thanks, I had indeed missed that!

 

[halcyon]

I'm not sure everyone who is commenting knows much about either Leo or the project. I would advise watching from the beginning. It's probably the best wooden boat building channel on YouTube along with "Tips from a shipwright". Both are professional boat builders rather than Uma/sail life style YouTube bodgers.

He's restoring a classic yacht to the very highest standards. At the same time he is producing a very watchable video record of the restoration.

As for the diesel electric parallel hybrid power solution. I 100% agree with it. It's not new tech. It offers two propulsion systems in one and two generation systems in one.

Tried that on #33, the nice part to me is a lot has been back in the UK most of the yards are all local, one yard he worked is used to be owned by a friend.

Brian

 

[DJE]

It worth watching all 87 if you are interested in wooden boats, or just yachts, earlier episodes also covered his work to earn money at the start of the rebuild, shipwright or delivery skipper. Sometimes I find him hard going, but just for the amount of effort and skill he puts into it. But he will end up with a lovely yacht that is worth a lot of money, but then we all have that option.

I liked when he was thinking how to get Tally Ho back to the UK when finished, options, sail back via Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope

Brian

And didn't he mention the northwest passage too?

 

[halcyon]

And didn't he mention the northwest passage too?

Yes, he did like the Panama canal option though.

Reminds me of Robin Davie rebuilt a Hurley Tailwind to do the BOAC in 1990, near completion we were talking, he said he planned a shake down cruise to Cape Town. To fund the race he worked on a tug in the Gulf war towing in Iranian oil tankers that had been attacked, last trip two days after returning to the UK the tug was hit by an exocet no survivors. Some sailors are a different breed.

Brian

 

[doug748]

Using a special algorhythyem of my own devising I have worked out that the batteries will weigh a ton.

I see the attraction of the system but think it will work out a bit of an albatross in the end. Up to him though, I doubt if there is anyone else on the planet who could have pulled off what he has achieved.

.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The difference between dreamers and lunatics seems rather unclear.

Or is it just clickbait boat porn for fame and fee?

 

[halcyon]

Using a special algorhythyem of my own devising I have worked out that the batteries will weigh a ton.

I see the attraction of the system but think it will work out a bit of an albatross in the end. Up to him though, I doubt if there is anyone else on the planet who could have pulled off what he has achieved.

.

All depends on how you view the system, is it your primary drive, or a convenience / emergency drive ?

In this case he only plans to use it as a immediate mooring aid from the service bank, or emergency if the diesel fails and he needs to clear a Lee shore. The prop charges the batteries 24 hours a day under sail, no wind the engine will charge the batteries via the motors.

Brian

 

[Gary Fox]

All depends on how you view the system, is it your primary drive, or a convenience / emergency drive ?

In this case he only plans to use it as a immediate mooring aid from the service bank, or emergency if the diesel fails and he needs to clear a Lee shore. The prop charges the batteries 24 hours a day under sail, no wind the engine will charge the batteries via the motors.

Brian

I wonder how many watts charge the prop can deliver, at a reasonable cruising speed under sail?
Water driven turbines are completely different to propellors.
It would help if you could vary the pitch manually from the instrument panel, ( I dont think you can?) but even then it wouldn't be very efficient at all.
Not meaning to sound negative it's a fantastic boat, just skeptical of the wonder-hybrid , perpetual motion hype.

 

[38mess]

I wonder how many watts charge the prop can deliver, at a reasonable cruising speed under sail?
Water driven turbines are completely different to propellors.
It would help if you could vary the pitch manually from the instrument panel, ( I dont think you can?) but even then it wouldn't be very efficient at all.
Not meaning to sound negative it's a fantastic boat, just skeptical of the wonder-hybrid , perpetual motion hype.

I think he said in the last video that he can change the prop pitch to charge the battery. It would seem a wasted opportunity considering the Huge amount of money this system must be costing if he didn't add a variable pitch prop.

 

[halcyon]

I wonder how many watts charge the prop can deliver, at a reasonable cruising speed under sail?
Water driven turbines are completely different to propellors.
It would help if you could vary the pitch manually from the instrument panel, ( I dont think you can?) but even then it wouldn't be very efficient at all.
Not meaning to sound negative it's a fantastic boat, just skeptical of the wonder-hybrid , perpetual motion hype.

Not new technology though, so it's set-up is known and it's charge capability, more a case of will my need fit the bill. You are only generating your average 24 hour power consumption, not recharging the batteries. If you need to recharge you start the engine and you have two big alternators. Have my doubts about it on a day sailing 35 footer, but for blue water global sailing it looks nice.

Brian

 

[dunedin]

I wonder how many watts charge the prop can deliver, at a reasonable cruising speed under sail?
Water driven turbines are completely different to propellors.
It would help if you could vary the pitch manually from the instrument panel, ( I dont think you can?) but even then it wouldn't be very efficient at all.
Not meaning to sound negative it's a fantastic boat, just skeptical of the wonder-hybrid , perpetual motion hype.

Very good point about the difference of props for propulsion vs generation. Lot of work going into variable geometry props to cater for both modes.
But was amazed to read in the article about Jimmy Cornell’s latest super high tech cat, he has ended up needing different props on the two sail drives - one optimised for propulsion , the other for generation.
So sounds like even with the leading suppliers providing leading edge tech, the prop geometry issue ain’t solved quite yet (but expect will be soon).

 

[DJE]

I wonder how many watts charge the prop can deliver, at a reasonable cruising speed under sail?
Water driven turbines are completely different to propellors.
It would help if you could vary the pitch manually from the instrument panel, ( I dont think you can?) but even then it wouldn't be very efficient at all.
Not meaning to sound negative it's a fantastic boat, just skeptical of the wonder-hybrid , perpetual motion hype.

I must have missed the bit about perpetual motion. But I did see the bit where he talked about sailing for several days and generating enough charge in the batteries for a few berthing manoeuvres. I don't think he will need too great an efficiency to achieve that. I suppose if it is too inefficient or too noisy you could feather the prop and use a separate hydro-generator to charge the batteries. Seems to me the system is mostly aimed at flexibility and redundancy of propulsion and generation systems and it achieves that very well.

 

[Ink]

Have you followed the work Tally Ho for the last 2 years ? quite interesting just what goes into rebuilding a wooden boat. If you look into his site he has many funding options running plus sponsors.

For what he plans to do, this power option is very interesting, without him the Tally Ho would have been firewood, what is peoples problem these days ?

Brian

Tally Ho came to bits two years ago. Long live Tally Ho II.


Ink

 

[Frogmogman]

As a bit of thread drift, the name of this yacht was of immediate interest to me, as my pa had, in his youth, served on the HM Submarine of that name.

The name for the submarine Tally Ho was coined by Winston Churchill himself, and she was one of the most effective subs in the Indian ocean, under the indomitable command of Capt. Leslie Bennington, DSO and Bar, DSC and two Bars, all of which is recounted in Ian Trenowden's book The Hunting Submarine.

Tally Ho famously had two ship's badges. The crew had already come up with their own badge, showing a sea horse sitting on a sinking merchant ship. When the official badge caught up with the boat in Trincomalee. Bennington said he didn’t like it and told the subby to send it to Chiang-Kai-Shek, which he did.

​

Official

Unofficial

At the end of the war when Tally Ho was asked to send the official badge to the workshops so a copy could be made, Bennington told the story to the Flag Officer Submarines, who was none too pleased. It was several years before a replica was produced.



My Dad served as 1st Lieutenant on her in 1953-4 under a Captain called Barry Rowe (who my father considered to be dishonest). The photo below shows my father, aged 26, with megaphone in hand directing berthing when they had just arrived back in Scotland having crossed the Atlantic from Bermuda submerged the whole way, using the snort.

 

[XDC]

Leo has posted this on his FB page:

"
Thank you everyone for such positive feedback regarding the last video!
Here’s a bit of extra information about the HYBRID MARINE parallel hybrid system that didn’t make it into the video, which might answer a few of the most common questions.
Generator -
The engine can be used as a generator without turning the propeller - there will be a clutch on the prop shaft / belt drive mechanism. This can be disengaged when at anchor to charge the batteries without spinning the prop. The clutch will be simple and mechanical and can be easily accessed to be manually locked together in the event of an issue.
Regeneration -
Yes, I know it will not be possible to power the boat exclusively through regeneration from the propeller. And yes, there will be some speed loss when spinning the prop under sail. I don’t know how much it will get used, but it is a feature which is, by default, possible with this setup - so why not have it as an option.
Personally I think this type of regeneration will be most practical on a long ocean passage. Imagine you are crossing the Atlantic or Pacific with the trade winds, you could be sailing for weeks with more than enough wind to achieve whatever boat speed you feel comfortable with (considering wear on the sails and rigging etc). Even if you only get 250W from regen, over a 24h/day that would add up to 6kWh per day, which is double our estimated daily usage.
It will be interesting to see if / when / how regeneration is actually useful, but I do think it's a nice option to have, especially as it does not require any extra infrastructure.
Hybrid marine have an interesting video about regeneration power, I think they calculated in their trial that they could boil a cup of water for tea every 6 minutes - just enough to keep an englishman hydrated!
Regarding the prop, I may have misspoke slightly in the video when I said Variable Pitch (suggesting that the pitch could be manually controlled). The prop will be of the Feathering type (such as Maxprop or Variprop) which feathers automatically when sailing.
To enable regeneration when sailing you run the prop shaft in reverse which turns the prop blades into their reverse position. They will then be locked in that position by the force of the water due to the forward motion of the boat. It's a bit hard to visualise but of course will be explained properly in a future video.
Belt Drive -
This has been suggested to be a weakness. However, belts are relatively inexpensive and several spares can be hung around the prop shaft to be installed quickly and easily if one is broken. If something is violent enough to break a belt, then I would say that it is better for a low cost belt to be broken than a mechanical part somewhere else in the system.
Batteries -
I know very little about batteries and probably shouldn’t have even mentioned them in this video. There will be a lot more research done before any decisions are made. Safety in this area will be a top priority. Lots to talk about here but not yet.
For more information about this system, I recommend reading from this page https://www.hybrid-marine.co.uk/index.php/hybrid-info
Honestly although there has been a lot of lively discussion, there has been a lot less animosity than I had expected about this last video. Almost everyone seems to be on board with the plan, and those that have reservations have generally presented them thoughtfully. Of course in general most comments do not influence my decisions, but occasionally they are extremely useful!
I'm very grateful to have such a positive group supporting this project, so keep up the discussion!"

 

[Ravi]

I'm curious how much the batteries will weigh, and how much space they will occupy,,, compared to the original internal ballast.
Can they safely cope with seawater sloppping about? Can they be lifted at sea to fix a leak?
Will this classic style gaff cutter be covered in ugly solar panels?
I think a Beta factory 240v alternator, expensive house batteries and an invertor would have been better.

If you watch the video, you will see his reasoning for the solution. (Redundancy)

 

[Ravi]

How much does it cost compared to a bog standard diesel? As an example, a hybrid diesel electric system is available as an option for a new Broadblue 346, a 33' catamaran, much smaller and lighter than that boat, yet it costs £86k for the hybrid system. That's beyond the reach of most buyers.

Other than that the usual problems will apply - batteries have a very low power density, both for weight and volume, even lithium ones. What is the speed/range on battery power for a hefty boat like that? 3 knots for 20 minutes maybe? And as discussed on another thread - a propeller designed for propulsion makes a poor turbine, and vice versa.

Because adding an engine to an engineless boat was a step change in functionality and the cost/benefit analysis (not called that at the time, but still would have been done) showed that the cost was worthwhile. However, putting in a hybrid system is not an increase in functionality over a plain diesel system, and of questionable environmental benefit when looking at the extra environmental cost of producing the system. The cost/benefit analysis would also be dubious.

Wow! You are certainly passionately against this guy's decision!

From your comments it would seem that you haven't watched the video where he explains the boat's engine history and the rationale for his decision. Someone has also helpfully posted further explanatory text from Leo Sampson on the subject elsewhere in this thread ( Diesel Hybrid yacht ... brilliant explanation. ).

Definitely worth viewing/reading to understand the thinking that has gone into choosing the hybrid solution.

If you have the time, it is also worth checking out his Youtube channel where he runs an impressive project rebuilding a classic yacht. You might find that this Leo guy, (despite his youth), is not some random Youtuber and actually might know a bit more than most of us.

 

[Bru]

The Tally Ho project is a tour de force of both wooden boat building to the very highest standards by a talented and incredibly hard working young guy and of the way that modern social media can be used to achieve something that would have been virtually impossible

Leo, if you watch the early stages of the project, was working entirely alone. Not only was he working long hours on the boat, he was then burning the midnight oil to produce the videos. And his savings were fast running out necessitating breaks to go off and earn enough to keep it going

As the popularity of the videos, and therefore the income, grew, he gradually built a team of people around him and generated a huge amount of interest in traditional craftsmanship

And he generated and continues to generate the finance for the project without recourse to grants, tacky sponsorship or begging.

It's a positive good news story where nobody gets hurt*, nobody gets ripped off**, no harm is done***, so why do some people feel the need to denigrate it?

* Apart from Leo who removed the tip of one of his fingers! Ouch

** Patreon supporters etc choose to support the project. There's nothing sneaky or underhand about it

*** The original Tally Ho was beyond salvation. The new Tally Ho will be a modern rendition of the original. Opinions differ on whether it's a rebuild, a replica or whatever but frankly who cares?

 

[Frogmogman]

[QUOTE="Bru, post: 7468393, member: 23489”]

* Apart from Leo who removed the tip of one of his fingers! Ouch


[/QUOTE]

Did we ever find out how he did that ?

There was a rumour at the time that it was the parrot ?