deposing the skipper

[sarabande]

The procedures for taking over the captain's position on HM ships is well established, mainly by precedent.

I assume that similar arrangements are in place in the other services.


What happens if the skipper of your boat does show signs of making very wrong or dangerous decisions, imperiling the boat and her crew ? What actions are lawful and expedient ?


For the sake of this thread, you are in a sailing boat halfway across the Channel with several other crew. The skipper becomes irrational but not violent towards anyone, but it seems clear to the the crew that his/her balance of mind is disturbed.


I am not seeking a WNS resolution - though you can treat it as a Daka-style offering - but the practical answers, and if possible some legal precedent.


(It should be clearly understood that this thread does not relate to any person living or dead nor does it mean I am contemplating mutiny over the banning of baked beans on board )

 

[Topcat47]

I had an experience with a gung-ho "full speed and damn the torpedoes" skipper back in the 80's. I won't bore you with the "straw that broke the camel's back". Fortunately there were only three of us on the boat. We locked him in his cabin (with a bottle of malt - his)and brought the boat back from Cherbourg between us. He's never spoken to either of us since.

 

[Seajet]

I was told of a sailing instructor who rather neglected his duties, in favour of the bottle.

His crew of students grew fed up with this, and on a cross Channel trip, waited until they were out of sight of land - they were doing everything, he was busy imbibing below.

Then they hid all their logs and course notes, leaving the chart blank, and yelled for him ' we're lost ! '

" haven't you kept a log ? "

" nope, we just sailed this way a bit "

Apparently they never saw anyone sober up so fast !

 

[jimmynoboat]

No experience to offer but interested in the legal side if anyone knows. Particulalry where a crew would stand if they'd clapped the skip in irons for the safety of all only to then be involved in a collision!

 

[snowleopard]

I have heard of 3 or 4 incidents which were the reverse of this, i.e. going below in a funk and leaving the crew to get on with it.

In the case of bad decisions I would (and have done) carry on and resolve not to sail with the person again. If it was a case of putting the lives of the crew in danger I would refuse to carry out orders and I guess ultimately I might even restrain the person. A friend of mine helped in a mid-Atlantic rescue where a crew on another yacht had stopped taking the medication for his bipolar disorder and was throwing himself overboard etc. Under those circumstances one would certainly be justified tying him into his bunk. It's the borderline cases that are the problem.

 

[Seajet]

I've been on the other end of this; a crew on my boat refused to put a harness on when I asked - not told - him to do so as things were getting lively, and he always reckoned he knew a better course to steer.

The one time I let him navigate ( DR ), we found Alderney ahead rather where I'd hoped Guernsey should be !

He crashed every motorcycle & car he ever owned - repeatedly - and is the only person I know who's crashed a sailing yacht several times, when he finally got one.

I put him ashore at Plymouth to make his own way back to Sussex, whereupon he went off to wreck his own boat and endanger his crew, but not before he'd tried violence, a snag as he was a karate trained type, and I was only just able to keep control of the boat - after that I understood why skippers on ships have a revolver !

 

[Boo2]

...I understood why skippers on ships have a revolver !

Is that really true nowadays ?

Boo2

 

[Seajet]

Is that really true nowadays ?

Boo2

No,

I admit it's not true in all circumstances.

For people who declare on 'the lounge' that Britain & France started World War 2 by attacking poor German troops as they strolled innocently through Belgium, I'd make a special effort and discard the revolver in favour of a 30mm gatling gun.

 

[Pete7]

It wasn't the skipper that was the problem, he was too busy with his green bottle of Gordons and we didn't really need him. It was the Officer Cadet second mate who needed restraining. So long as the first mate was about no problem, but when he got his head down.........

She ended up being thrown into Gibraltar harbour at the end of the trip which seemed fitting and eased the tension.

Pete

 

[bryantee]

taking over a thread

yes similar happens. no names no pack drill. general manager goes diving in a tropical paradise on the saturday. monday morning giving everybody a hard time . sacked two or three on whim. questions asked by the hoi pollio .in the club after five in the afternoon is acting strange. starts challenging every body there to a game of darts. he,s throwing some 3metre short and chalking up scores out of this world. a quick conference gets the medical officer down the club. the tartan army takes over. only two flights a week but hes shipped out next flight. back in two weeks embarrassed and throws a monumental party. moral is if you go diving ,dont put your conch shells in you belt bag. and he apologised to everybody. it happens.

 

[Poignard]

If you see him playing with three steel balls - lock him up at once.

 

[sarabande]

ah, yes, Queeg. I had almost forgotten that film. Powerful stuff.



But seriously.... how does one decide that the skipper is not fit to command, and what legal basis does one have for taking action to relieve him/her of responsibility for the boat ?


I am familiar with the NHS procedures for sectioning people (basically "danger to themselves or other people") but what / how does one apply such control standards afloat ?

 

[Rum_Pirate]

moral is if you go diving ,dont put your conch shells in you belt bag

 

[Poignard]

ah, yes, Queeg. I had almost forgotten that film. Powerful stuff.

You've also got to be careful of Captains who keep potted palm trees.

Did you see that film? (One of my favourites)

 

[mjcp]

You've also got to be careful of Captains who keep potted palm trees.

Did you see that film? (One of my favourites)

Wasn't it Bread fruit? (or is that a type of palm?)

 

[Seajet]

Modern history suggests Bligh was actually a rather liberal type, but hand on heart I have to say, if given the choice between the era's R.N, or making a new life in Tahiti with crumpet abound, Hello Tahiti !

 

[Colvic Watson]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantee
moral is if you go diving ,dont put your conch shells in you belt bag

 

[stephenh]

We were taking a Vertue through the canals to Bordeaux.
Crew starts acting a little oddly, then very oddly, finally extremely oddly – violently swearing at waiters in restaurants etc. We put him on a flight home and carried on with the journey.

Back in the UK 3 weeks later we phone to see how he is …

“ Oh, didn’t you know, he died last week, we buried him yesterday – he had a brain tumour ”.

 

[Woodlouse]

I've sailed with some bad skippers before, but unless they are actually putting the vessel and lives in real danger then I'm usually content to just hang on until the next port of call. I've never had to even attempt to relieve someone of their command.

I think if you were to do so at sea then everyone involved in incapacitating the skipper would have to sign a sworn statement in the log which could then be used to support any defense required once ashore if the skipper wanted to take further action. In reality I think you'd just go your separate ways on very bad terms.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I think if you were to do so at sea then everyone involved in incapacitating the skipper would have to sign a sworn statement in the log which could then be used to support any defense required once ashore if the skipper wanted to take further action.

On a private, non-commercial, pleasure yacht the "skipper" has no greater status than anyone else on board, so locking him up because he was a danger to navigation would be no worse - or better - than locking up anyone else.