chrishscorp
Well-Known Member
Where is the next nearest launching point for a tender ?
Denial of Access to the boats - legal position and compensation ?
- Thread starter Binnacle
- Start date
Where is the next nearest launching point for a tender ?
Halo
Well-Known Member
Looking at it from the landlord's point of view i suspect he has secured the area in case he gets a personal injury claim. Your business is probably not worth the effort or risk from his point of view. I suspect you need to
- pay him enough to make it worthwhile or
- find some way to motivate him to get it sorted (e.g. bad publicity / is he required to maximise income subject to embarrassment if you all leave / is he required to make best use of resources for the community)
- get access by another route
- tell him you will claim against him if any damage occurs to the boats because you cannot check them ?
- leave
- pay him enough to make it worthwhile or
- find some way to motivate him to get it sorted (e.g. bad publicity / is he required to maximise income subject to embarrassment if you all leave / is he required to make best use of resources for the community)
- get access by another route
- tell him you will claim against him if any damage occurs to the boats because you cannot check them ?
- leave
Romeo
Well-Known Member
Could it be that there has been something said or done by one of your co-owners which has pissed your man off so much that he thinks it is just not worth the hassle any more having you lot about? That would be a shame. Personally I would go round to the guy with a cake, before rushing off to a lawyer. I presume there must in fact be some other means of access, all be it not as convenient. If so, it would be better to plan for that and then recover your money in the small claims court after, rather than engaging in conflict. Try the cake first though.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
Ask for a rent rebate, no-one likes handing cash back.
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Spherical objects.
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
Too late now but it might have been better if nobody had ever mentioned fixing the steps … you say the problem is almost cosmetic only, also that you have the means to fix it yourselves. All sounds very British to me!
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Sorry I agree with Don. this is not the case of A VS B but a whole series of boat owners against the landlord. The police will not have any idea which of the owners removed the lock so nothing will happen.
Personally I do not think he has the right to deny access at this point but come March you will probably have no rights at all.
macd
Well-Known Member
Oh, no, not another Brexit thread.
chrishscorp
Well-Known Member
+1 to both comments
chriss999
Well-Known Member
Admitting that I know nothing of the situation apart from what is written here, but my thoughts are..
Sometimes even the best arrangements break down. Then it is time to move on. In the meantime the boat owners need access so they can check that the boats are safe and to remove them. Maybe the landowner would allow access to allow this to happen, on the understanding that it is to allow an orderly exit.
(Perhaps the landlord is too old for the bother, or wants to use the land on another way, or to sell it free from claims for access? Who knows?)
Anyway law is one thing and practicalities are another. It looks like time for talk.
Sometimes even the best arrangements break down. Then it is time to move on. In the meantime the boat owners need access so they can check that the boats are safe and to remove them. Maybe the landowner would allow access to allow this to happen, on the understanding that it is to allow an orderly exit.
(Perhaps the landlord is too old for the bother, or wants to use the land on another way, or to sell it free from claims for access? Who knows?)
Anyway law is one thing and practicalities are another. It looks like time for talk.
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
Let me re-word my earlier response ...
"Well Officer, the lock to which I have had paid for access for the past X years was found rusted up. I was most concerned, both for the safety of my (expensive) property, which is also under a duty of care obligation to the Landlord, to both protect my own property and prevent me later having to put upon the landlord a civil legal matter that he had breached his duty of care by allowing the lock to become rusty. "
Or
"That's how I last found it" "Not surprised though as the Landlord is a Tw*t"
"Well Officer, the lock to which I have had paid for access for the past X years was found rusted up. I was most concerned, both for the safety of my (expensive) property, which is also under a duty of care obligation to the Landlord, to both protect my own property and prevent me later having to put upon the landlord a civil legal matter that he had breached his duty of care by allowing the lock to become rusty. "
Or
"That's how I last found it" "Not surprised though as the Landlord is a Tw*t"
Binnacle
Well-Known Member
There is no alternative tender launching place for a mile or so across the water and something like a ten mile drive by car. And nearly alll of us have our tenders on the foreshore to which we have no access. It'sa hostage situation.
The landlord had dozens of verbal messages and emails at the start, but came back with the same argument that the agreement is finished so no point in talking. We have offered informal talks via an intermediary - No. We have offered formal mediation - No. We have a legal opinion that the way the agreement was terminated is not according to Landlord and Tenant Act and this has been sent to him, but no reply. After six weeks of trying, to get talks going we are no further forward except in increase of frustration
Is the landlord committing a legal niuisance ? Are there any other laws he is breaking ? We want to keep the problem low key, so involving the local press does not sound a good idea.
The landlord had dozens of verbal messages and emails at the start, but came back with the same argument that the agreement is finished so no point in talking. We have offered informal talks via an intermediary - No. We have offered formal mediation - No. We have a legal opinion that the way the agreement was terminated is not according to Landlord and Tenant Act and this has been sent to him, but no reply. After six weeks of trying, to get talks going we are no further forward except in increase of frustration
Is the landlord committing a legal niuisance ? Are there any other laws he is breaking ? We want to keep the problem low key, so involving the local press does not sound a good idea.
Yellow Ballad
Well-Known Member
I really can't see how you can resolve it to keep access past March next year. At best you might get some money back for this years access but it'll probably cost you more then it's worth. As mentioned cake may be the option.
Not in Plymouth by any chance?
Not in Plymouth by any chance?
Seajet
...
I'm sure you're probably technically right, but if someone denied me paid access to my boat, bolt croppers and a new padlock on THEIR door would be the least of their worries !
Romeo
Well-Known Member
Can you not just climb the gate?
If vehicle access through the gate is required......At best cutting the lock is a once only solution because the next time you come back the locks will have changed again and a vehicle of some sort will also be parked across the access. You would be best to save that one off for emergency and instead swallow your pride and do the one mile tender ride from elsewhere. It can become a social part of your boat ownership shared with your fellow owners.... once a week for those that can make it, checking things for those that cannot make it. You could shift some or all of the tenders in a joint effort.
It would appear that the only obligation being breached by the landlord is a breach of contract. Your right of access is a contractual one. The way you have described matters, the only arsehole in this situation is the landlord. Best to keep it that way, despite the gung ho advice offered by others.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
I not sure you can class this guy as your landlord , for him to be your landlord you have a tenancy agreement , it does sound all you have is an agreement to cross a patch of land . In which case the landlord act don't apply in this case .
Personally I think you and your mates are on a loser,
Court case or not this guy don't want you to use his land any more you best bet would be to find another way to get to your boat as soon or later that's what you going to have to do .
On another note , if say one of the boat sunk for lack of someone checking his boat , if there was any other way to access the boats I not sure the insurance company would except that you couldn't maintain the boat because You couldn't get access through that gate .
It's a shame it's all came to this , I lay money one of the boat owners pushed the land owner too far with demands and the guy now thinking your few pounds ant worth the trouble.
Personally I think you and your mates are on a loser,
Court case or not this guy don't want you to use his land any more you best bet would be to find another way to get to your boat as soon or later that's what you going to have to do .
On another note , if say one of the boat sunk for lack of someone checking his boat , if there was any other way to access the boats I not sure the insurance company would except that you couldn't maintain the boat because You couldn't get access through that gate .
It's a shame it's all came to this , I lay money one of the boat owners pushed the land owner too far with demands and the guy now thinking your few pounds ant worth the trouble.
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oldharry
Well-Known Member
While I have every sympathy with OP in this I find myself thinking there must be another side to this story. What has caused the landowner to do this?
I was involved in a similar argument recently over parking near the açess to my mooring. Access was via a narrow winding lane to a row of about half a dozen houses where the road widened enough to allow parking. For a great many years boat owners and walkers parked there without problems.
However although there is a public rhight of way the actual road is privately owned. Some years ago the residents put up barriers to prevent parking. There was something of an uproar, but as it was a private road the residents insisted no one could park there any more.
It turned out they did this because a rare bird had been seen in the marshes, and the crowds of twitchers had been leaving their cars blocking driveways and even the lane itself for a while. Now the only option is to buy a season ticket in a public car park some distance away. No fun if you have an outboard and a pile of gear.
I was involved in a similar argument recently over parking near the açess to my mooring. Access was via a narrow winding lane to a row of about half a dozen houses where the road widened enough to allow parking. For a great many years boat owners and walkers parked there without problems.
However although there is a public rhight of way the actual road is privately owned. Some years ago the residents put up barriers to prevent parking. There was something of an uproar, but as it was a private road the residents insisted no one could park there any more.
It turned out they did this because a rare bird had been seen in the marshes, and the crowds of twitchers had been leaving their cars blocking driveways and even the lane itself for a while. Now the only option is to buy a season ticket in a public car park some distance away. No fun if you have an outboard and a pile of gear.
Malish
Well-Known Member
A generic problem as the population has become more mobile and the value of property in the countryside has increased.. the, often new, owners of such properties don't want 'visitors'
macd
Well-Known Member
+1
With so little time before the contracted arrangement ends, anyway, the only realistic solution is to try to reach an amicable solution, or find other means of reaching the boats. Any legalistic solution, if there even is one, will be short-lived, divisive and expensive.
NormanB
Well-Known Member
The only practical solution to check the boats (which must be the priority) is to borrow a tender with a decent outboard and transit there by water and collect a couple of the boat owners tenders and tow them back, et seq. until you have all the tenders back to the new launch point.
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