Denial of Access to the boats - legal position and compensation ?

prv said:
Does it seem at all likely that you’ll be able to force someone to keep renewing a contract against their will?

Pete
Click to expand...
Bang on the button. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the landowner's actions via a vis the current contract, it would seem unlikely that you can force him to renew for another year. Time to think about alternative arrangements .
 
If the moorings are owned by the Harbour Board and there is no reasonable access to your boats, why not ask the Harbour Board if they can assist in the situation between you and the landowner? The Harbour Board stands to lose money on renting their moorings out if there is no access to them, so its in their interest as well surely? How do the Harbour Board access the moorings by foot if they want to check whats going one there? Does anyone else have use or access to the locked gate, perhaps they have upset the landowner?
Who owns the foreshore/shoreline where the tenders are stored? Perhaps find out if the landowner is REALLY the landowner? Has he/she recently inherited the property from the original owner who you had your agreement with? Just a few thoughts.
 
A silly suggestion. If there are 40 ish boat owners with moorings. Try getting together and put an offer in the by the land you need for access.
 
Uricanejack said:
A silly suggestion. If there are 40 ish boat owners with moorings. Try getting together and put an offer in the by the land you need for access.
Click to expand...

Breach of contract
Court injunction
Obligation to put rented object in useable condition.
Registered letter to hold him responsible for any damage caused to boats.
You have right of access if you have paid for it.
Bolt croppers if necessary.
Contract may be written or oral as long as the essential conditions are clearly understood and consideration has been paid.

IMHO.
 
All the above is fine but came March they still not going to have access , best to find another way to access the boat , otherwise it look they may also loss their mooring too .
 
Sybarite said:
Breach of contract
Court injunction
Obligation to put rented object in useable condition.
Registered letter to hold him responsible for any damage caused to boats.
You have right of access if you have paid for it.
Bolt croppers if necessary.
Contract may be written or oral as long as the essential conditions are clearly understood and consideration has been paid.

IMHO.
Click to expand...

Which will irrevocably ensure the agreement is never renewed again in 4 months time.
 
Someone referred to the disrepair as “cosmetic”, but I get the impression it is more than that? If it is not a H&S risk and you ask him to spend money then maybe he is right to be peed off! But I do not read that to be the case.

You say that you have a lease under the Landlord and Tenant Act - but not which one, there are several.
If you refer to the 1954 Act, which deals with security of tenure (when the lease term expires), then you only have protection under that act if you pay rent (you do), occupy for the purpose of a business (suspect you don’t) and have exclusive occupation (I assume that you do not have exclusive occupation of the access route - but does the landlord own the area where dinghies are stored and do you have exclusive occupation of that?)
However we are not considering your right to renew at expiry but your eviction from the site during a contractual term.

It would be interesting to know how much you pay. If this is a pittance then you might consider another letter stating that you have considered the matter carefully and that perhaps you have expected too much for the fee you pay and offer an increase going forward, and say that your group will undertake the repair as a gesture of goodwill.

Assuming that you have paid to March and that you have a contract (which seems to be the case) then your landlord seems to be in breach of that contract. If, after all of your reasoned pleadings he is unmoved and you are not going to get a renewal of the tenancy agreement (unless you do qualify as a business tenant under L&T 1954 and the landlord has none of the grounds stated in that act where he can seek possession) then you might as well make alternative arrangements from March. In the meantime, I would speak to your solicitor with a view to serving notice upon the landlord that he is in breach of your lease/licence and that he has 5 working days to repair the step and remove the padlock (seeking return of an appropriate amount of the rent for the period of denied access) and that if he fails to comply then you will
1. Remove the padlock and let him have a key for its replacement;
2. Repair the steps (to minimum standard necessary for H&S compliance);
3. Seek recovery of the cost of padlock and stairway repair;
4. Seek compensation for loss of amenity, and the cost of those 20 mile round trips!

However, note that if the repair of the stairs is inadequate and leads to injury........!
 
Maybe a bit late now given the way things have gone but could you offer to take responsibility for the maintenance of the access yourselves?

Taking that headache (from the landlord's perspective) away might be enough to bring him back on side.

After all it seems to me the real problem is not access now but what happens next year
 
I wonder if the land owner has been spooked over concern of a right of way becoming established or some other perceived vulnerability.

How old is the land owner?
 
It seems to me that you have four problems. The sense of outrage at the landlord's precipitous actions which only time will heal. You will probably never trust him again. Secondly, the future access via this gate. That seems to me to be a goner. I would not want to rely on it in future whatever the outcome of this dispute.
This leads to the next problem, access to your boat. You say there is access to the river a mile away after a ten-mile drive. One mile on a calm day at slack water is easy in a rubber dinghy. I would get myself a bigger boat to do that trip regularly, but it's possible in most weather. Go get your tender from the foreshore and check your yacht. You could get together with others and borrow/charter a bigger boat to retrieve all your tenders. Driving ten miles to access your boat would be considered luxury by many boat owners. Get on with it.
The fourth problem is the use of the mooring in the future. Well, it's going to be less convenient. The Lymington and Beaulieu rivers down this way have hundreds and hundreds of moorings a mile or more from easy access as, I dare say, do many other rivers around the country.
I can fully understand your sense of hurt and outrage in this situation, but indignation will get you nowhere. Legal action will at best get you a very reluctant and angry landlord who will terminate the agreement as soon as possible. Legal action will almost certainly cost you more than you pay for access. It's a lost cause.
 
StormNorm said:
It seems to me that you have four problems. The sense of outrage at the landlord's precipitous actions which only time will heal. You will probably never trust him again. Secondly, the future access via this gate. That seems to me to be a goner. I would not want to rely on it in future whatever the outcome of this dispute.
This leads to the next problem, access to your boat. You say there is access to the river a mile away after a ten-mile drive. One mile on a calm day at slack water is easy in a rubber dinghy. I would get myself a bigger boat to do that trip regularly, but it's possible in most weather. Go get your tender from the foreshore and check your yacht. You could get together with others and borrow/charter a bigger boat to retrieve all your tenders. Driving ten miles to access your boat would be considered luxury by many boat owners. Get on with it.
The fourth problem is the use of the mooring in the future. Well, it's going to be less convenient. The Lymington and Beaulieu rivers down this way have hundreds and hundreds of moorings a mile or more from easy access as, I dare say, do many other rivers around the country.
I can fully understand your sense of hurt and outrage in this situation, but indignation will get you nowhere. Legal action will at best get you a very reluctant and angry landlord who will terminate the agreement as soon as possible. Legal action will almost certainly cost you more than you pay for access. It's a lost cause.
Click to expand...

:encouragement:
 
Good qdvice above.

You’ve tried talking nicely to the landlord & that didn’t work. I suppose it is a matter of working out the priorities.
If it were me, my main priority would be getting access to the tenders and to the boats, ideally immediate access and maybe access for the remainder of the term of your licence / lease. (Whichever.) And a solicitor’s letter politely setting our your rights and your proposed actions would be best.

The secondary issue is for future years’ access. Talking to the harbour authority might help. And possibly the landlord or landlord’s solicitor might be persuaded to explain their position. In the unlikely event of dialogue, an improved offer and clarification of H&S issues could possibly help.

But winterising the boats would be my priority.
 
If the dinghys have been left ahore the right way up for a while they almost as sure as eggs are eggs will be quite full of rainwater by now ? I know my dinghy left up that way require weekly bailing outs for the last couple of months.
 
Great post.....thanks for sharing, and please do let us know how it develops.

I find it impossible to believe that none of the boat owners have been aboard on the last 6 weeks. I would never leave my boat afloat for that long without at least a quick visit.
 
Capt Popeye said:
If the dinghys have been left ahore the right way up for a while they almost as sure as eggs are eggs will be quite full of rainwater by now ? I know my dinghy left up that way require weekly bailing outs for the last couple of months.
Click to expand...

Why would you leave your dinghy in such a way that it would fill with rainwater? Two easy solutions:- either invert dinghy, or extract bung.
 
I am overwhelmed by the responses with advice and encouragement from the forum, both personal and professional.

They have clarified a number of points, and given us much hope. We shall be taking the issues uo with renewed vigour, confidence and care.


Thank you all very very much. Updates will apoear as and when they happen.
 
Binnacle said:
I am overwhelmed by the responses with advice and encouragement from the forum, both personal and professional.

They have clarified a number of points, and given us much hope. We shall be taking the issues uo with renewed vigour, confidence and care.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you've taken encouragement from the thread, but I must admit I can't really see how you have done so :). Apart from the gung-ho suggestions involving bolt-croppers, which you seem too calm and careful to adopt, most appear to be agreed that whatever happens your access is highly unlikely to continue past the renewal date in March.

Pete
 
NormanS said:
Why would you leave your dinghy in such a way that it would fill with rainwater? Two easy solutions:- either invert dinghy, or extract bung.
Click to expand...

Ahoy there, yes well I am not sure from all the postings if these dinghys are above or below the mean HW mark ! if below on poss Crown fundus land they need to float on the tide; if above poss private land then yes agree they can be upturned safely.

Just hope that sittuation gets resolved for these guys
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

T
Notices to Mariners - Week 51
Replies
4
Views
963
Shaz77
S

Share this page

Top