Delivery of boat to Cardiff - options.

[craiglockwood]

Having not sailed for the past 7 years, and as this is an unfamiliar boat to me it is probably wiser to get her transported by road.

I have the luxury if being able to sail during the week and for extended periods but I think it would be money well spent getting the boat to her new home safely.

Thanks all for the advice!

 

[Sadjers]

Craig,
I sailed my fin keel Virgo from Portsmouth to Swansea in two weeks and I was stuck in Dartmouth for three days waiting on a gale. The journey went from Portsmouth to Poole to Lulworth to Exmouth to Dartmouth to Plymouth to Falmouth to Newlyn to St Ives to Padstow to Swansea to Cardiff.
I did it with one crew. I wouldn't do it alone but mainly due to my rigging where I have to go to the mast to raise and lower the main.
When you say shallow fin, my draft is 1.3m. See my boat out of water http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...pcb.10151652251269579&type=1&relevant_count=3
I costed getting it moved from where I bought it in Brightlingsea to Wales, The Solent and Liverpool. All quotes came in around a grand.
Advertise for crew on this forum and sail it. It was a great experience for me.
You could also buy/borrow my cradle and higher a car trailer. It would weigh about 3tonne tops. Cranage either end could cost another couple hundred.
Most important is to join the Newbridge Owners Association. Check out http://noa.freeforums.net/ and http://www.newbridge-owners.org/
Make sure you contact me when you're in the channel 07779333328 and chris.james12@virginmedia.com.

All the best
Chris

 

[jwilson]

Don't plan to stop in St. Ives. The only visitors moorings are drying ones as far as I know. The long run will be Newlyn to Padstow, or better yet Newlyn - Lundy. We've just had weeks of mostly north to NW wind, some pretty strong, and if you hit a similar weather pattern you could spend an awful lot on visitors moorings and meals in Falmouth or Penzance waiting for a nice weather window. Fine if you have the time, and are not paying crew.

One other factor to think about is that a delivery company will probably sail in weather you might regards as horrible and/or dangerous. Normally it isn't dangerous, just very lumpy. A competent delivery company will assume any owner on board is a passenger, possibly a seasick one.

One final factor is that just as you get round Lands End it always seems to get rougher, and there is not a place to find that your engine breaks down with muck stirred up by the motion, or some part of the rig starts to cause a problem. With the exception of my present boat, which was near-as-dammit new (70 miles on the log), every used boat I've ever bought had a string of faults/breakages in the first few weeks. Once they'd all been fixed, you could sail for years with no problems and only normal routine maintenance.

 

[rob2]

When I bought my boat (Mersea Island) and had to get her back to Southanmpton, I was lucky enough to find that chaps in our club were affronted when I was getting quotes for road transport when they could foresee a week's cruise! Not knowing the boat's strengths and weaknesses, we elected to sail in daylight only and of course it was beating all the way. Made it to Portsmouth in our time slot (missed a tidal gate) so only had to get a crew for a one day trip home.

The day before we left, I was offered a haf-price road haulage option on an empoty return journey! I realised that the only reason I couldn't take it was that I couldn't arrange cranage both ends in time. These details are what influence the decision most. If you can find a flatbed Hiab truck at a good price, then you can quickly assemble a cradle from scaffolding poles and pipe fittings (like the ones for park hand railings) - after all, you'll be wanting a cradle come the winter anyway. Pic of my fin-keel, 1.4m draught on diy cradle: http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy87/rob2hook/Mojo - my Weston 8500/cradlemojo-1.jpg.

Rob.

 

[ClaireW]

You could try http://www.pydww.co.uk/. Very helpful people.

 

[lenseman]

Give Pete a ring at Halcyon. A nice bloke and will talk you through the options.
http://www.halcyonyachts.com/

Hee-hee, nice one Pete.



.

 

[duncan99210]

When we moved Rampage from the Hamble to the Menai, we used a delivery skipper who charged us IIRC £300 plus expense for himself and 2 crew. In the event, we joined them for the trip, which was in early April. We had allowed 5 days for the trip: it actaully took us just on 3 days. We paused for about 12 hours at Falmouth to wait for the tides going round Lands End but otherwise made the trip as a single journey. Bit rough going across the Bristol Channel but otherwise a good foundation for both SWMBO and me. To find the skipper, I simply put delivery skipper into google and worked through the list thrown up by that.

If you can find the time, I really do think that this is the best way to do it. A couple of folks who know what they're doing and just go for it!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

There is a lot of sense in what Contessaman says. Even allowing for the trip from plymouth to cardiff being easier than the reverse journey, you are still vulnerable to weather problems anmd the legs from penzance / newlyn to padstow and then from padstow to combe are long ones needing good weather. And if the weather is good for Plymouth Penzance it isnt likely to be for Penzance Cardiff. Plus it has to be said, the boat is not a fast long distance voyager so much as a sheltered water day and weekend sailor.

Get it trucked.

I would move her by road. Honestly, unless you sail her around yourself and you have loads of spare time it will end up costing you more than road haulage. even if you did it yourself, all it will take is to get holed up in falmouth or newlyn waiting for a weather window for the last leg, then you run out of leave and have to go back to work until you can re-attack. the cost of the cruise will soon overtake road haulage. I have done the south coast to cardiff sail both ways several times. and also had various yachts road hauled for same journey over the years. Got a 34 foot fin keeler hauled by road for £500 with a proper insured boat mover by utilising a return journey. In contrast, I have spent some serous wedge over the years on that sailing journey. victualing the yacht for 3 or 4 crew, then as I said having a shocker with the weather and running out of leave- boat left in marina on visitor rates.

plus, it doesnt sound like you have much time to prove the boat before your voyage. smashing into a monster sea in mounts bay in a little 23 footer isnt the time to find out the parts of the boat or equipment that need attention.

dont get me wrong its a really enjoyable if challenging journey to make. But especially with the weather these days it needs a well found boat and if you think it will be cheaper by sea than road you are probably mistaken.

btw where are you keeping it in cardiff? I can recommend CBYC!

 

[oldbilbo]

There is a lot of sense in what Contessaman says. Even allowing for the trip from plymouth to cardiff being easier than the reverse journey, you are still vulnerable to weather problems anmd the legs from penzance / newlyn to padstow and then from padstow to combe are long ones needing good weather. And if the weather is good for Plymouth Penzance it isnt likely to be for Penzance Cardiff. Plus it has to be said, the boat is not a fast long distance voyager so much as a sheltered water day and weekend sailor.

Get it trucked.

Yes.

On the balance of 'risk/reward', get the boat trucked safely home. There will be plenty of other occasions to find out what you and your boat together are comfortable doing. Even in moderate weather, that trip will be gruelling in a 23' unknown hull.

 

[alant]

When we moved Rampage from the Hamble to the Menai, we used a delivery skipper who charged us IIRC £300 plus expense for himself and 2 crew. In the event, we joined them for the trip, which was in early April. We had allowed 5 days for the trip: it actaully took us just on 3 days. We paused for about 12 hours at Falmouth to wait for the tides going round Lands End but otherwise made the trip as a single journey. Bit rough going across the Bristol Channel but otherwise a good foundation for both SWMBO and me. To find the skipper, I simply put delivery skipper into google and worked through the list thrown up by that.

If you can find the time, I really do think that this is the best way to do it. A couple of folks who know what they're doing and just go for it!

this guy must have been doing it as a hobby, cos few 'delivery skippers' would charge that little, for that trip, unless "plus expenses" padded it well out.

 

[bert49uk]

try Nick Sampson has Hiab lorries and transports lots of boats
http://www.nicksampson.com/transport-heavy-haulage.php

 

[Sadjers]

St Ives was a wonderful stop. There are anchor buoys in the bay and all you need is a dinghy. I liked it so much that I am heading back there next week.

Chris

 

[jwilson]

St Ives was a wonderful stop. There are anchor buoys in the bay and all you need is a dinghy. I liked it so much that I am heading back there next week.

Chris

It is certainly a nice place on a nice day: it is not any sort of place to plan to be in bad weather in a fin keeler with winds anywhere between SW/W and N. On passage in a small slowish yacht from Penzance/Newlyn to the Bristol Channel it would be tempting fate to waste good weather stopping in St. Ives. And if the weather is bad, better not be there if there is any chance of the wind going NW.

 

[theoldsalt]

I echo advise on being sure of good weather for a stop at St. Ives as a fin keeler is best anchored off. St. Ives is a drying sandy harbour.

It can also be unpleasant with the wind in the east. I got out just in time some years ago while on passage with a bilge keeler. I spent several days sheltering in Pastow during a strong easterly blow.

Although the north Cornwall and Devon coasts may seem to offer some shelter from strong E/SE/S winds yachts can be knocked flat by sudden and sometimes unexpected squals that funnel down from the valleys.

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

I think I have come to this thread a little late and it seems the OP has now decided which route to go down. Interesting to see the usual spread of opinions, and thank you for the vote of confidence from Pete R.

For what its worth I agree with Gwylan, yachts are designed to be sailed not hauled around at high speeds on bumpy roads. Some people seem to think that delivery by sea is inherently risky and could result in damage. Breakages can of course happen, but when they happen whilst sailing it is usually an indication that some service or maintenance is needed. What better way to test that your new yacht is seaworthy and identify if anything needs upgrading than by paying some guinea pigs, I mean delivery crew, to sail her a few hundred miles to her new home. A perfectly good yacht will suffer stress and strains on a truck that it should never be exposed to...

My only other point really is that the route from Plymouth to Cardiff is fantastic. Given the opportunity to sail along one of the most beautiful coastlines in the world, stopping in stunning places such as Fowey, Helford, The Ilses of Scilly and Lundy I know which choice I would make!

Whichever way you go, best of luck and enjoy your new toy!

Pete

 

[alant]

I think I have come to this thread a little late and it seems the OP has now decided which route to go down. Interesting to see the usual spread of opinions, and thank you for the vote of confidence from Pete R.

For what its worth I agree with Gwylan, yachts are designed to be sailed not hauled around at high speeds on bumpy roads. Some people seem to think that delivery by sea is inherently risky and could result in damage. Breakages can of course happen, but when they happen whilst sailing it is usually an indication that some service or maintenance is needed. What better way to test that your new yacht is seaworthy and identify if anything needs upgrading than by paying some guinea pigs, I mean delivery crew, to sail her a few hundred miles to her new home. A perfectly good yacht will suffer stress and strains on a truck that it should never be exposed to...

My only other point really is that the route from Plymouth to Cardiff is fantastic. Given the opportunity to sail along one of the most beautiful coastlines in the world, stopping in stunning places such as Fowey, Helford, The Ilses of Scilly and Lundy I know which choice I would make!

Whichever way you go, best of luck and enjoy your new toy!

Pete

And on that coast, if it isn't?

What do you do Skipper, look up RNLI on your ipad?

Irresponsible to go to sea on that basis IMO.

 

[graham]

Hi Craig Great to hear you are taking up sailing again. Best of luck whichever way you get her back.

I will send a PM ref someone who may be able to help.

Remember this ??

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

And on that coast, if it isn't?

What do you do Skipper, look up RNLI on your ipad?

Irresponsible to go to sea on that basis IMO.

Hi Alant,

Bored today are we?

When delivering a yacht, or indeed sailing any vessel for the first time there is an element of the unknown. Following a thorough check of the yacht (all systems, rigging etc) and having studied any recent surveyors reports we set sail. As a Solent based sailor perhaps you haven't ventured beyond the Needles... If you ever do sail in the south west you will learn that Plymouth has a very large and extremely sheltered bay with several options of refuge. Once past Rame head (assuming all is going well) you would sail west and would have numerous further options as safe havens. By the time you are round the Lizard and approaching Lands End any good Skipper would know whether her condition is suitable to continue - and actually North Cornwall is not as bad as it might seem, in fact with the right forecast it really is a beautiful bit of coastline to sail along.

I'm slightly confused by your comment about the RNLI, and I don't own an ipad (last I heard was that you could contact the coast guard using vhf).

It is disturbing that you think such a trip would be irresponsible. The OP is being very sensible in asking advice and I commend his choice to seek an experienced skipper to assist. To simply put a boat on a trailer just because you fear the worst is terribly pessimistic. I personally think that Plymouth would be a better place to test sail a yacht than Cardiff and I also think doing so with the assistance of professionals is much more sensible than doing so for the first time with your family.

Pete

 

[alant]

Hi Alant,

Bored today are we?

When delivering a yacht, or indeed sailing any vessel for the first time there is an element of the unknown. Following a thorough check of the yacht (all systems, rigging etc) and having studied any recent surveyors reports we set sail. As a Solent based sailor perhaps you haven't ventured beyond the Needles... If you ever do sail in the south west you will learn that Plymouth has a very large and extremely sheltered bay with several options of refuge. Once past Rame head (assuming all is going well) you would sail west and would have numerous further options as safe havens. By the time you are round the Lizard and approaching Lands End any good Skipper would know whether her condition is suitable to continue - and actually North Cornwall is not as bad as it might seem, in fact with the right forecast it really is a beautiful bit of coastline to sail along.

I'm slightly confused by your comment about the RNLI, and I don't own an ipad (last I heard was that you could contact the coast guard using vhf).

It is disturbing that you think such a trip would be irresponsible. The OP is being very sensible in asking advice and I commend his choice to seek an experienced skipper to assist. To simply put a boat on a trailer just because you fear the worst is terribly pessimistic. I personally think that Plymouth would be a better place to test sail a yacht than Cardiff and I also think doing so with the assistance of professionals is much more sensible than doing so for the first time with your family.

Pete

Really!
How little you know.

Your "When delivering a yacht, or indeed sailing any vessel for the first time there is an element of the unknown. Following a thorough check of the yacht (all systems, rigging etc) and having studied any recent surveyors reports we set sail.", seems to be the complete opposite to the advice given - "What better way to test that your new yacht is seaworthy", which appears to advocate setting sail & then discovering any inadequacies/problems. You & your delivery guys don't do that, so why advise the OP?

This is the advice I consider irresponsible, not "It is disturbing that you think such a trip would be irresponsible", albeit a trip such as that, along a coast with few decent refuges for a fin keeler after Land's End, in order to discover if "your new yacht is seaworthy", still seems foolhardy. Yes in perfect weather, a beautiful coast, I've sailed it on numerous occasions, also doing deliveries, but how often is it perfect & would that be the best place to "test that your new yacht is seaworthy"?

"To simply put a boat on a trailer just because you fear the worst is terribly pessimistic. "
As a responsible Skipper, part of my job, is to plan for the worst & only a fool would not "fear" it.

You have remedied your original comments with "I personally think that Plymouth would be a better place to test sail a yacht than Cardiff", which IMO is much better advice than the previous & more in line with your obviously normally high operating standards. Perhaps, I am sensitive to what might seem to me, cavalier attitudes to the sea & safety, which I'm sure wasn't your intention, but my interpretation.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I think I have come to this thread a little late and it seems the OP has now decided which route to go down. Interesting to see the usual spread of opinions, and thank you for the vote of confidence from Pete R.

For what its worth I agree with Gwylan, yachts are designed to be sailed not hauled around at high speeds on bumpy roads. Some people seem to think that delivery by sea is inherently risky and could result in damage. Breakages can of course happen, but when they happen whilst sailing it is usually an indication that some service or maintenance is needed. What better way to test that your new yacht is seaworthy and identify if anything needs upgrading than by paying some guinea pigs, I mean delivery crew, to sail her a few hundred miles to her new home. A perfectly good yacht will suffer stress and strains on a truck that it should never be exposed to...

My only other point really is that the route from Plymouth to Cardiff is fantastic. Given the opportunity to sail along one of the most beautiful coastlines in the world, stopping in stunning places such as Fowey, Helford, The Ilses of Scilly and Lundy I know which choice I would make!

Whichever way you go, best of luck and enjoy your new toy!

Pete

I'm a bit surprised by your comments Pete. The trip that the OP is planning on making is one that I have done at least twice and usually four times a year for the past 20 years so I am reasonably familiar with it. If I was a relative newbie , had not sailed for 7 years and the boat was completely new to me, I would not risk sailing that coast.

You are of course right in that if the OP was prepared to take a long time waiting at each stop for the right weather then he could do it in the boat he is buying and maybe even in a sailing dinghy. But that isnt the way of things - he will inevitably be anxious to get back in a sensible time scale. And to be caught out in a lightweight 23 foot boat on the north cornish coast with likely no refuge between Padstow and Combe is not something to be taken casually. Whats more the trip will be tedious. He's likely looking at 15 hour legs from Penzance to Padstow and Padstow to |Combe which means in both cases that he will miss the gate / tide and have to anchor off.

I think you are also missing the issue of weather patterns. Suitable weather for the legs to lands end is rarely also suitable weather for lands end to cardiff. Occasionally I have managed to time it such that the wind vered from easterlies to westerlies os similar as I rounded lands end but usually I have had to chose relaticvely light winds and motoring. Again not good in a 23 footer.

Finally your comment about Plymouth being a better place to get to know the boat than Cardiff is simply nonsese. I cant believe you have ever sailed into Cardiff to say that. Behiind the barrage at Cardiff is an ideal area for the first few steps which is why its used to train kids in Oppies and the sheltered waters outside the barrage are good thereafter. Cardiff Bay really is one hell of a facility these days.