deep keel cruisers in the UK

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Now then Pooch! Just what do you think you are up to! Hmmmmm?

They will likely as not all come tumblin' out of the woodwork with their prejudices fully armed, ready to rip your balls off.

You 'as already had some of it what wiv boats that sail sideways and other such bollix...........I get the impression that sailing for a lot of people on these forums is more about trotting down to the Marina, going for a quick spin, then toddlin' back to the Marina for dwinkies and nosh, at that tewibly nice westewaunt.............for Gawd sake! don't encourage 'em to do owt else, other wise us will probably have to put up with the buggers comin' over this way, and bein' a pain in the arris!

Now you just leave 'em be, dyer hear, the last thing we want around these parts is a bunch of posh yotties cluttering up the place! We has our waters all to ourselves for the most part, and what us don't want is all these 'ere hooooway Enwys with there silly plastic AWB thingies, complaining that it isn't like this in the Solent! Norf Debun an' Cornwull be for proper sailor men, not a place for limp wristed pansies from down sarf!

So you jus' wind ya neck in boy, an' leave 'em be! Fought you 'ad more sense I did.

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And in English that would be... ???
 
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And in English that would be... ???

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It's on a need to know basis. You are not meant to understand if you don't have a bilge keeler... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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And in English that would be... ???

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It's on a need to know basis. You are not meant to understand if you don't have a bilge keeler... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

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What's Commisar Guapa Gumpa's problem? Dunny unerstan proper inglish den? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sneaky bugger 'as jus' changed 'is colours too never did trust they Roooskies!
 
We had shallow draft boats that could take the ground for many years, kept on cheap drying moorings. Whilst in theory that allowed for what I believe our American cousins call gunkholing we spent most of our time avoiding taking the ground when we were on board. Everywhere we went seemed to be upwind in sea conditions that seemed to leave us hobbyhorsing and getting nowhere fast, motorsailing was the norm not the exception. We finally saw the light and went to a deep keel 25 years ago and have never looked back, our current love draws a healthy 6'10" and guess what, wherever we anchor we are often surrounded by 'shallow' draft boats that prefer to be out with us than right inshore. However once we up anchor we can keep up good average speeds without resort to motors and even upwind. Many many times on a weekend short trip to the Solent from Poole we have headed home, hard on the wind and passing to windward of all these shallow draft boats, despite them motorsailing (bang crash, stop dead, replace teeth, start again) and us sailing beautifully, carving through the water at around 7kts and 28 degs apparent.

Dream on, you cannot get a silk purse out of a sow's ear, just 'cos it can dry out and telling yourselves over and over it is the better option doesn't mean it is for everyone, for us it is not! All IMHO of course. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Dream on, you cannot get a silk purse out of a sow's ear, just 'cos it can dry out and telling yourselves over and over it is the better option doesn't mean it is for everyone, for us it is not! All IMHO of course. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Wot be 'umble about that opinion then? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Not very sensible are they?

[/ QUOTE ] . . . well my multihulled mutt, it depends on what you call the UK.

Anywhere pretty much on the West coast of Scotland is accessible with 2m draft, and a bilge keeler is pretty pointless (and won't point prettily either). Most long-keelers can dry out quite safely beside a wall anyway.

Having said that, I don't half fancy a nice new 40ft Ovni . . .

- Nick
 
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Wot be 'umble about that opinion then?

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Poetic licence but it really IS what I believe. The only real advantage of shoal draft is the ability to use cheap moorings, which is basically why twin/triple/bilge keelers are mostly a UK phenomenon. Multihulls are a different beast entirely.
 
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Wot be 'umble about that opinion then?

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Poetic licence but it really IS what I believe. The only real advantage of shoal draft is the ability to use cheap moorings, which is basically why twin/triple/bilge keelers are mostly a UK phenomenon. Multihulls are a different beast entirely.

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You missed out drop / swing keelers, and the ability for all of them to get into places that deep draughted vessels can't go.

Joking aside though, It depends on what you want to do with your boat, and where you can keep it. Here on the north coasts of Devon and Cornwall, a fin keeler would be a totally useless. This is not by a long shot the only place that applies to. Also this huge generality, that bilge keelers don't sail to windward all that well, is just so much misinformed twaddle, probably derived from the early versions of them that very often wouldn't, but there are many that will point up just fine. At least enough for most cruising sailors. Some have even done very well in various racing events.
 
This is sort of my point, having a boat that is only ideal in your home port is daft in my opinion, this just severely limits your options for cruising.

Point taken about long keels, as long as a wall is available or the bottom hard enough to use legs. But they are only just acceptable, I am sure you would not want one to hit the bottom twice a day for long periods.

Some seem to be trying to attack cats in a light hearted way, which are also not ideal, they don't like us in marina's. But this is not a physical restriction.

To say you will never need to visit a drying harbour is fine, but what about the time god forbid that you need to get in quickly, a severe fault, weather, medical. It may be 60 miles to a deep water port but generally not more than 10-15 to a small harbour.

When I see people standing 'under' the boats at boat shows signing up with the sales reps, I just wonder if they are 'really' aware of what they are doing?
 
mais pas de tout - If I posted that everyone who sails a bilge keeler is a tw@t I would expect some disagreement from those who obviously prefer to sail sideways - each to his own old boy!
 
Chinese whispers

if you can find where I called anyone a tw@t I will buy you a bottle of malt...

phew, that saved me a packet.

I think it is odd you are choosing to attack me, I have not said anything about particular boats nor anything about the way they sail. I just find it intriguing that so many people restrict themselves to using the few deep water harbours available. I still think you are being too touchy about this.

If I wanted a mono (eek) and was permanently on the med I would never consider bilge or lifters, but in the UK I would never choose a fin. I will stop now, there is no point, you have decided, rather than be pleasant or adult, lets just make up stuff and flame.
 
Sorry but I have to call foul!
You were obviously bored and wanted to play by posting the provocative statement: "Deepkeel cruisers in the UK - not very sensible are they"
When someone picks up the challenge, it is not allowable to defend your original statement by claiming the respondent is touchy or immature.
Play properly or not at all!
 
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You missed out drop / swing keelers, and the ability for all of them to get into places that deep draughted vessels can't go.


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Yes I did, because they at least retain some performance, but in the larger sizes (we sail a 41 footer) they have a draft not hugely different to regular fin keelers and I would suggest don't use drying moorings or dry out regularly. BTW if we really wanted to we have 6'10" draft but are quite capable of lying alongside a wall or drying on legs, not that I would want to. There is nowhere on our usual circuit from the UK south coast to La Rochelle that we want to go but cannot because of our draft. I do understand your problems on the north Cornwall or Devon coast/Bristol Channel but I think personally I would rather keep a boat in a deepwater port and accept the longer drive from home to get to it.

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Also this huge generality, that bilge keelers don't sail to windward all that well, is just so much misinformed twaddle, probably derived from the early versions of them that very often wouldn't, but there are many that will point up just fine. At least enough for most cruising sailors. Some have even done very well in various racing events.

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Yes I've heard that urban myth too! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In our context we sail a performance cruiser/racer that will make most cruising fin keelers look very slow, especially the expensive designer label ones. Modern twin keelers may indeed be better than the old designs are but that is still a relative comparison and whilst they may indeed 'point' in the same direction as a similar fin keeler they actually may well be a slippin' and a slidin' away sideways quite rapidly. To say some have done quite well in racing events may also be true, I did in mine when I owned them - that is the advantage of handicap racing.

When we owned a Westerly 33 ketch we sailed in company many miles in company with another one, we had a fin keel and they had twin, our draft was 5'5" and theirs I believe was 4', not a lot of difference. Upwind we were a good 1/2kt faster, we both pointed the same way but by tack time they had slid sideways much more and were therefore downwind of us too, basically they would let us get about a mile ahead then motorsail fast to catch up. Downwind we were still 1/2kt faster surprisingly, even on one trip when we were both caught in severe weather (like gusts of 50kts and huge seas but we also tracked better, much easier on the wheel, perhaps because the rudder was deeper too as well as the keel. Half a knot may not seem much but 100mls at say 6kts takes 16.7hrs and at 5.5kts takes 18.2, 1.5hrs longer so not at all insignificant for otherwise identical boats

Each to his own, but having owned a variety of both shallow bilge keelers and deep fin keelers I can honestly say I have never missed the ability to dry out regularly, but I really WOULD miss the extra performance the fin keeler gives. In bad weather give me the deep fin performance anytime, not only can we keep going we are faster and can get it over with sooner!
 
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To say you will never need to visit a drying harbour is fine, but what about the time god forbid that you need to get in quickly, a severe fault, weather, medical. It may be 60 miles to a deep water port but generally not more than 10-15 to a small harbour.


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You are coming from a different viewpoint. You are limiting your imagination to boats of a similar size to your own and thus similar cruising ranges in say a typical weekend or summer holiday.

When I first considered a fin keeler, my mooring was a drying one in a club that had only 6 deepwater moorings but 70 drying ones. I was concerned that there would be places inside of Poole I couldn't go anymore and that Christchurch would be out full stop. When I talked about it to the few fin keel owners in the club they said don't worry about it because in the same time we took to go to Christchurch they (similar size) would be at Yarmouth/Lymington, and if we wanted to sail about the same number of HOURS rather than distance, that would be where we finished - they were right.

As far as being within reach of a safe haven is concerned that is much less of a consideration as size increases irrespective of boat type. In any event I cannot think of anywhere in our cruising circuit where it would be true that a drying harbour would be a nearer safe option in an emergency. In any event drying harbours are 'closed' to all for much of each day anyway, by definition and can be dangerous to attempt entry in the wrong conditions. Plus, comparing your boat to mine (and not trying to be 'superior', just factual) we could cover 60 mls in just over half the time you would take and the difference if that were to windward would be even greater. In heavy weather we could still do it when you couldn't.

As I said elsewhere, each to his own to suit what you favour. I started with shoal draft and moved to deep draft and my only regret is that I didn't see the light sooner. In any event with bigger boats there are fewer options anyway other than a slightly shallower fin v a deep one because few are built with twin or lift keels.

I haven't touched on multihulls simply because I have no experience of them and where we sail the extra 50% on the mooring bills would take the shine off rapidly.
 
[quote I do understand your problems on the north Cornwall or Devon coast/Bristol Channel but I think personally I would rather keep a boat in a deepwater port and accept the longer drive from home to get to it.



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I have snipped out your other points, not because I don't wish to engage with you about them, but simply because we could go round in circles arguing them until the cows come home /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's all horses for courses really, you have one set of requirements from your sailing and others, including me have other priorities.

If you lived 150 yards from your mooring and your mooring was free of charge, are you really saying that you would sooner drive a 200 mile round trip to a Marina that you would have to pay say ( just for illistration) a couple of grand a year? That is the happy situation I am in, certainly, I have to work the tides, but we are all used to that around here, and people around here have been doing it for centuries.

Bilge keelers are the norm here, with a smattering of drop / swing keelers, also boats over 30 feet are unusual, as are new boats, because the area doesn't attract posh yotties.

It's as I said before, horses for courses. If you live on our coast, unless you have got a lot of money, you have to give yourself a set of different priorities if you want to going sailing here. If you have a big wallet, and want a big, and or, fin keeled boat, to race around the Solent, then you pays ya money for Solent facilities.

Speaking from the perspective of just being an ordinary working bloke, I would sooner go sailing from here, because the free facilities, and very cheap harbour dues for visiting boats in the Bristol Channel generally, means I can afford a better boat than if I had to pay Solent type prices. In fact, if I had to pay Solent, or even South Devon prices, I wouldn't be going sailing! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I couldn't afford to.

Like I said......Horses for courses.
 
If I had a boat in the Bristol Channel it would be a great big deep keeler that would allow me to get as far away as fast as possible.

But thats just me. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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what about the time god forbid that you need to get in quickly, a severe fault, weather, medical. It may be 60 miles to a deep water port but generally not more than 10-15 to a small harbour.

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What about the time when the only safe harbour is to windward and it's blowing old boots?
 
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