Dead engine sailing

[Concerto]

Not too useful when the filler hose has an S bend in it.

The tank is under the cockpit, so I have to lift the grating, unscrew the cap and dip the tank. Westerly decided it was the best place to position the tank and is so simple (in theory) to dip the tank.

 

[johnalison]

Much of the chaos in marina berthing stems from too much engine and failing to respect and use wind, tide and the boat's handling character. And as others have said some marinas offer berths that are not practical under sail.

I used to sail regularly on the Norfolk Broads and we would do everything under sail. Shooting Potter Heigham bridge under sail with a quick mast lower and up is probably banned now. Almost anything was possible but certain situations were "no go" due to wind or tide. Most apparently irretrievable situations come good when you lower sails (quickly) and focus on not T boning anything using head to wind or tide to take way off. A quant pole was a useful aid but tricky to justify on a coastal boat.

I agree that everyone should practice. Turning the engine on before lowering sails for example avoids a valuable chance to learn how a boat behaves under reduced or no canvas. How will she sail with main alone? What control have I got over speed and direction? I love exploring this but not when there are lots of witnesses present!

I have also mentioned the Broads, and look back fondly on the times I hired (not chartered) boats with 2,3, or 4 berths as well as a Y&B one-design, all engineless. There was always the quant pole, of course, but essentially all work was done under sail. In our weeks from Potter or Horning I never failed to cover the waters from Wroxham to Horsey as well as the Ant, and it was my BiL not me who kept running boats into things. Sea sailors are often patronising about inland sailing, but it can sometimes be just as demanding in its way.

Everyone should practice, as you say, if only in the privacy of their own creek. The point is not that anyone should seriously think of sailing into marinas or other tight spots, but that they should at least feel able to when necessary, if only to leave them free from that awful 'what if?' feeling every time they go out.

 

[KevinV]

I have heard of Frenchmen sailing backwards out a marina berth

Pfff, piece of cake - being self-taught I learned to sail backwards before I figured out how to make the damn thing go forwards

It actually came in useful the first time I helmed a yacht - the skipper did a mob drill in the first five minutes. Being completely unversed in any "correct" way to do such things I stopped the boat, sailed it neatly backwards, and picked up the casualty cushion. Skip was a bit taken aback, as was I at the complexity of the approved method!

 

[mjcoon]

However, I had better hang onto the original dipstick as certain highly-placed individuals seem confident the UK will soon revert to using imperial measures, and I wouldn't want to to be thought of as unpatriotic.

I bet such individuals think that measurement is only needed in shops, and know nothing of STEM topics...

 

[johnalison]

Pfff, piece of cake - being self-taught I learned to sail backwards before I figured out how to make the damn thing go forwards

It actually came in useful the first time I helmed a yacht - the skipper did a mob drill in the first five minutes. Being completely unversed in any "correct" way to do such things I stopped the boat, sailed it neatly backwards, and picked up the casualty cushion. Skip was a bit taken aback, as was I at the complexity of the approved method!

It also helped me in the Markermeer when a mass of the local weed got round my keel. I didn’t want to risk weed round the prop and just backed off.

 

[Poignard]

I bet such individuals think that measurement is only needed in shops, and know nothing of STEM topics...

I'm sure you're right

 

[Poignard]

I should point out the my sails are my primary engine and the diesel is my backup, just like the old sailing ships.

As a matter of fact, apart from training ships, warships, and exploration ships, very few cargo carrying sailing ships were built with auxiliary propulsion engines and most had their engines removed as owners realised that they didn't pay.

An engine, shut down for most of the voyage, took up space that could better be used for profit earning cargo, and having a couple of engineers doing nothing was an expense owners could do without.

(see "Deep Water Sail")

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Quite.

But I’m with Capnsensible; it’s a skill worth having and it’s great to be able to teach it and give confidence to others.

For me, having the skill is good. Knowing your limitations, and the limitations of the boat are pretty important too. We pay the price of all that performance by being light and flighty in tight situations. But we do have the deck space to be comfortable on moorings, hence our backup plan being that, rather than sail into a potentially damaging situation.

 

[Frogmogman]

I did a season racing out of the Lymington yacht haven in a J29 when we pretty much always sailed on and off the berth. The outboard motor lived in the middle of the cabin floor for most of the time.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

What is the capacity of your Twister's tank?

Mine is 55 litres, which seems unnecessarily large for an engine using 1.7litres/hour at cruising speed.

somewhere between 25 and 28 litres depending on my eyesight I keep another 40 in a couple of jerry cans.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

A dip stick works well - when I remember to use it. The tank holds 40 gallons, so rarely needs checking.

it's the remembering that's the skill! I'm a bit meticulous about monitoring fuel. It was beaten into me a youth during my Air Engineer training. Many many hours looking at this:

 

[capnsensible]

it's the remembering that's the skill! I'm a bit meticulous about monitoring fuel. It was beaten into me a youth during my Air Engineer training. Many many hours looking at this:
View attachment 157838

Where did you keep the masking tape?

 

[geem]

I was in Great Inagua, the southern most Bahamas island, not far from Haiti. Whilst we were there, we watched the Haitian work boats sail into the harbour. They are about 50ft, engineless boats. Fantastic skills seeing them sail in under perfect control.
We often sail on and off the anchor and have had to sail in to anchorages a couple of times due to engine problems but nothing too taxing. We do always have sails ready to go should we have an engine failure, rope around the prop, etc

 

[Trident]

I came to boating late in life and whilst looking for a boat read all of Lynn and Larry Pardey's books - they circumnavigated two engineless boats several times and made a big deal of needing to know how to sail in every circumstance. So off we went in our 35 foot cat and practiced sailing on and off a mid river pontoon etc (no chance of sailing in to our marina except the hammerheads which we have done for practice) , sailing on and off anchor and buoys etc and back winding the sail to set the anchor properly.

I was very surprised when I started doing courses (I was told I needed Day Skipper / ICC to get in to EU countries back then - erroneously as it turned out) that none of these skills were even mentioned and since then often surprised when "experienced" sailors ask me how to do such things.

I normally find that very elderly gaffers still have tips that I can learn from when it comes to working just under sail

 

[Graham376]

Our first engine failure was coming out of Falmouth on delivery trip from Hamble to Conwy so, we just kept going under sail. Second time was when we picked up a section of cast-off net around the prop off Bardsey, took all night sailing slowly and then with dinghy lashed alongside to make it into Porthdinllaen and beach it to remove the net. Regularly practiced sailing onto Conwy mooring but where we are now, too crowded and lots of eddies.

 

[capnsensible]

I came to boating late in life and whilst looking for a boat read all of Lynn and Larry Pardey's books - they circumnavigated two engineless boats several times and made a big deal of needing to know how to sail in every circumstance. So off we went in our 35 foot cat and practiced sailing on and off a mid river pontoon etc (no chance of sailing in to our marina except the hammerheads which we have done for practice) , sailing on and off anchor and buoys etc and back winding the sail to set the anchor properly.

I was very surprised when I started doing courses (I was told I needed Day Skipper / ICC to get in to EU countries back then - erroneously as it turned out) that none of these skills were even mentioned and since then often surprised when "experienced" sailors ask me how to do such things.

I normally find that very elderly gaffers still have tips that I can learn from when it comes to working just under sail

Part of the Day Skipper syllabus is to safely sail to and from a mooring buoy and anchor under various conditions of wind and tide.

 

[Laser310]

I had a 34ft one-design boat - actually two of them - that had no motor.

In season, the boat lived on a mooring, and it was no trouble to sail off and then on the mooring every day.

But at the end of every season, I had to sail the boat into the marina where it was hauled for the winter. This was always something of a nerve-wracking enterprise. I tried to do it at slack water, but it wasn't always possible.
Going up the long (several miles), narrow channel was difficult because I often had to tack away from the sides of the channel, and motor boaters would yell at me...

then, once in the marina, navigating the finger docks and slips was tricky. I especially hated having to go downwind, as the boat had a full keel and large turning radius - one big puff and I would be much faster than i wanted to be...
Leaving the marina in the spring was much easier.

It always worked out fine, but I sure was lucky some of the times.

now I have a boat with an auxilliary - much easier...

 

[Kelpie]

The hardest thing I ever did under sail was drop a crew member onto another boat under sail. We had picked up a friend’s teenage daughter from the shore and she needed to get onto her parents’ Sadler 32, from our 29. We set our boats up on a course to windward in a fairly gentle breeze, which was when the fun started. In retrospect, I think we would have managed it more elegantly downwind.

I've only done crew transfer under sail once, and it was hard.
I was in my Vega 27, in company with a friend's SCOD. Quite brisk day in the north Minch. Friend had two newbie crew onboard who became incapacitated by seasickness. No autopilot. He ended up helming with a foot on the tiller, holding his 'crew' by the scruffs of their necks, as they retched over the leeward rail. I valiantly loaned my own crew member, which was pretty difficult in the circumstances. And thus ended up singlehanding a yacht for the first time in my life.

 

[Kelpie]

Part of the Day Skipper syllabus is to safely sail to and from a mooring buoy and anchor under various conditions of wind and tide.

This seems to be open to interpretation. When I did my first DS, we never picked up a mooring at any point, let alone under sail. Mine your, we also never dropped the anchor.
I've since done the course again with a different school, which was much more thorough!

 

[Kelpie]

We used to routinely sail on and off moorings, or anchor, on our first two yachts (27 & 33ft). Only once was under duress, early in our ownership of the 33ft, when I forgot that the bigger engine would use much more fuel, and managed to run out three miles from home. No drama, my non sailing mother was aboard and I must have kept things calm enough that she never questioned my choice of pastime.

Not so often now on the 39ft, partly because of the very high topsides which makes picking up moorings hard work at the best of times.

On the 27ft, we did sail in to marina berths a few times, when conditions suited. Most memorably at the end of a 3wk cruise to Ireland. We sailed back in to the berth in Stornoway at 6am, thinking it was a shame that nobody was around to see us home- then heard a quiet "nicely done" from the quayside. My friend and sailing mentor who had taught me almost everything I knew about sailing was taking his early morning stroll round the harbour and gave us a little nod of approval.