Dead downwind with a cruising chute.

[Koeketiene]

As for persuading one's nearest and dearest etc......on our boat One usually does these 'difficult' things while the nearest and dearest does the helming. Peace and tranquillity reigns as a result.

Ditto - shouting is NEVER the solution.
Lesson learned the hard way many, many years ago: I shout -> I don't get fed and I have to sleep alone.

 

[Plomong]

I shout -> I don't get fed and I have to sleep alone.

Amend that to include "outside, with the dog, the cat, etc." !!!

And in these parts, it does get cold at night.

Plomong

 

[Talbot]

If you roll out the genoa to use as a blanketing device without the main, you'll need to drop into the forehatch, as otherwise you'll just pull the chute out from behind the genoa and back into the full force of the wind. Forehatch drops are a great move with a full crew - but with a cruising crew one I would try an avoid. Apart from anything else, completely dry drops into the forehatch are rare enough on fully crewed race boats - on a shorthanded cruising boat that's only doing that manouver because something has gone wrong, or it's needed rid of in a hurry.... The occupant of the forecabin is likely to complain of a wet bunk.....

I normally singlehand.

I have no problem running under cruising chute alone, and using it without the main provides a better support for the mast on a boat with no backstay, just swept back shrouds.

If you are short/singlehanded and considering use of either a spinaker or a cruising chute, it does have to have some means of snuffing or furling before dropping.

My cruising chute is rigged on a continuous line furler and rigged to a type of prodder, and my spinaker has a snuffer.

I just returned from Cherbourg to Brighton on my cruising chute and was single handed.

 

[rickym]

On the last boat we used to put the 2nd reef in the main to stop the 'blanking' problem when running deep with the cruising chute in light airs. A preventer on the main and sail slightly by the lee kept the chute filled. We had a snuffer so easy enough to put away as wind got up easy to go onto whites. Used to carry the chute in upto 15kts aparent

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Why do you want to sail dead down wind?
Almost invariably it makes sense not to sail the rumb line. You're VMG will increase, you will spare your self the anxiety of an accidental gybe, or the effort of rigging a preventer and the motion of the boat will be much more comfortable.
Have a look at this article http://www.oceansail.co.uk/Articles/VMGArticle.html

That undoubtedly does apply to some multis and fast monos but it doesn not apply to all boats. For example on my boat you would have to go more than 20 degrees off a dead downwind course even to get the genoa to properly fill, and a bit more than that to get boat speed through the water as fast as goosewinged. Altogether different with, for example, a J109 flying a gennaker from a pole as I know from racing against them. Horses for courses

 

[flaming]

If you are short/singlehanded and considering use of either a spinaker or a cruising chute, it does have to have some means of snuffing or furling before dropping.

It doesn't have to. There are techniques that enable "standard" spinnakers to be flown quite happily by single and double handers.

For those who understand what they are doing, then flying chutes alone is possible, and the magic furling devices look really good. (Snuffers are still the work of the devil...)

The reason I'm so hard over on advising against using cruising chutes without the main up, is that this advice is often offered to new sailors, often with the additional "don't worry, your snuffer will take care of it".
This is simply getting a whole raft of sailors out there with no idea what to do if the proverbial hit the rotating device. And no explanation of the additional risks that you are taking by not flying your main at the same time.

There was even a memorable "Question of Seamanship" in YM a few years ago - where the scenario was a rapidly approaching coastline and a jammed snuffer - and the answer was given as "knife the halyard and the sheets, dump it in the sea and buy a new one"! Which is absurd - it was clearly assumed to be acceptable that the skipper should be flying a chute without even the most basic concept of how to drop it without using a snuffer.

 

[rickym]

We find the real benefit of the snuffer when short/single handed is not so much in getting it down but the ease of getting it up checking all ok then revealing the sail to the wind. Previously launching from the turtle we always seemed rushed with the hoist.

Dropping without the snuffer is always possible shielded by the main. I agree having some main up is always preferable when using a chute.

 

[Koeketiene]

(Snuffers are still the work of the devil...)

Why?

Shorthanded I would not want to be without one.

 

[Cantata]

Why?
Shorthanded I would not want to be without one.

Quite. Terrific invention. Mind you I have encountered one or two that were inclined to bite. Current one is a Hyde (acquired via a test report) and I have to say it just works brilliantly.

 

[flaming]

Why?

Shorthanded I would not want to be without one.

Because they give you nothing that good technique can't give you (certainly below about 45 feet LOA)

Because without a snuffer you can drop the chute from the security of the cockpit - instead of dancing around on the foredeck looking up - which is about the worst thing you can do from a balance point of view.

Because when used in conjunction with a spinnaker you have to be on the same gybe as you hoisted on to snuff, otherwise the snuffing lines are all the wrong side of the pole and forestay, and snuffing is impossible. To rectify this you have to throw them around the end of the pole. Try doing that in a hurry....

Even if you gybed a cruising chute you have to walk the snuffer lines round the forestay before you can snuff. Again - don't think of a planned drop, think of a "oh dear there's a ship / sandbank / big squall" etc

Because the extra length of the snuffer at the top of the sail puts it further from the mast and therefore less stable.

Because to unsnuff you have to be on the foredeck, and therefore away from the sheets (and/or guys) at the time the chute fills.

Because it is extremely difficult to have the genoa out when you unsnuff, which significantly increases the likelyhood of the chute wrapping around the forestay. Especially if you're still trying to tie off the snuffer lines at the mast - instead of tending the sheets....

I am aware I'm in a minority here though.....

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I can relate to what you say about snuffers. Our limited attempts to use one when racing have been uniformly bad soi we quite happily go "naked".

But I would be interested in how you would see single handed spinny work being viable on a boat like mine. Its not silly big at 36ft with a masthead rig and all pole lines and spinnaker lines and genoa furling lead aft. So what is the sequence for launching the spinny and for getting it down.

I only ask because we have been known to cok up ( once even launching upside down ) with 4 crew.

 

[flaming]

I can relate to what you say about snuffers. Our limited attempts to use one when racing have been uniformly bad soi we quite happily go "naked".

But I would be interested in how you would see single handed spinny work being viable on a boat like mine. Its not silly big at 36ft with a masthead rig and all pole lines and spinnaker lines and genoa furling lead aft. So what is the sequence for launching the spinny and for getting it down.

I only ask because we have been known to cok up ( once even launching upside down ) with 4 crew.

get the autohelm (or SWMBO) to drive whilst you rig the gear.
Turn onto a very broad (165-170 true) reach.
Put the guy in the pole, and set the pole to the height you want.
Open the spinnaker bag and return to the cockpit.
gently pull the guy until the corner of the sail is at the pole, but the pole is still at the forestay. Lock off the guy.
Set the sheet so that there is only a small amount of slack with the sail still in the bag, and lock it off.
hoist the sail with the halyard.
Gently pull / wind on the guy so that the pole comes off the forestay and the sail fills with wind. Continue to wind back the guy and ease on the sheet until you have the pole where you want it, and the spinnaker flying. Then tension the pole down.
now furl the genoa.

to drop is basically the reverse.

Unfurl the genoa.
Ease the pole to the forestay, whilst trimming in on the sheet until the spinnaker is fairly tight along the foot and not very (if at all) full of wind.
Fetch the lazy guy and run it down the hatch.
Run the halyard around a winch so that there's only 1/2 or 1/4 of a turn
Completley blow the guy.
Start pulling in on the lazy guy until you meet resistance - try and go along the foot, rather than up the side of the sail.
Once you can't pull any more sail to you, release the halyard - the part turn of the halyard round the winch should slow its descent enough to allow you to stuff the sail down the hatch without getting it wet.

And hey presto - one sail dropped without having to go on the foredeck. Magic.

 

[Koeketiene]

Because they give you nothing that good technique can't give you (certainly below about 45 feet LOA)

Because without a snuffer you can drop the chute from the security of the cockpit - instead of dancing around on the foredeck looking up - which is about the worst thing you can do from a balance point of view.

Because when used in conjunction with a spinnaker you have to be on the same gybe as you hoisted on to snuff, otherwise the snuffing lines are all the wrong side of the pole and forestay, and snuffing is impossible. To rectify this you have to throw them around the end of the pole. Try doing that in a hurry....

Even if you gybed a cruising chute you have to walk the snuffer lines round the forestay before you can snuff. Again - don't think of a planned drop, think of a "oh dear there's a ship / sandbank / big squall" etc

Because the extra length of the snuffer at the top of the sail puts it further from the mast and therefore less stable.

Because to unsnuff you have to be on the foredeck, and therefore away from the sheets (and/or guys) at the time the chute fills.

Because it is extremely difficult to have the genoa out when you unsnuff, which significantly increases the likelyhood of the chute wrapping around the forestay. Especially if you're still trying to tie off the snuffer lines at the mast - instead of tending the sheets....

I am aware I'm in a minority here though.....

Some good points - however, given our circumstances I still prefer a snuffer.
1. Big, heavy displacement boat (44') - large flush foredeck - balance and stability not really an issue
2. All halyards are by the mast, so have to be forward to hoist the thing anyway
3. Whilst I'm hoisting, Number 1 wife looks after the sheets - autopilot does the helming.

 

[flaming]

3. Whilst I'm hoisting, Number 1 wife looks after the sheets - autopilot does the helming.

What does number 2 wife do?

Agree it does slightly change the equation if your halyards are at the mast. I'd still go without though....

 

[rickym]

What does number 2 wife do?

Puts the kettle on!

 

[Koeketiene]

What does number 2 wife do?

Puts the kettle on!

 

[Habebty]

Yep goosewinging is good

Snuffers make singlehanding with chute so much easier

Goosewinging is best in lighter airs I reckon

 

[mcframe]

Only if you're polling out the clew. To pole out the clew of a cruising chute will require a massive pole, the size of which I doubt many carry. If however you have sensibly poled out the tack, then paradoxically you actually ideally need to move the sheeting position for the chute forward in order to prevent the top of the chute twisting off. moving it back again as the wind comes forward and you start reaching - with or without using the pole. Doubt many cruising boats will be using tweaker lines though - so that's all a bit accademic.

Interesting; will experiment more.

Yes, I made some handy tweakers - using the "can't remember the name but they'll have a board in your chandler" [0] - teardrop-shaped small eyed carabiners spliced on some light line. sprung wire gate, but nice large-radius polished lead.

I've seen flying bulls-eyes inside an eye-splice, but like flying blocks, you have to reeve them when rigging, and my solution is cheaper and lighter than snatch-blocks.

Cruising small boat, so no kite guys, and the lazy sheet is tweaked midships to turn it into a guy.

[0] Not Lewmar/Barton, etc, but the folks that do shackles - could be Blue Something.

 

[DJE]

I am aware I'm in a minority here though.....

Possibly. But you're not alone. Tried a snuffer about three times when we first got the boat and it's been left at home every since.

 

[Norman_E]

Possibly. But you're not alone. Tried a snuffer about three times when we first got the boat and it's been left at home every since.

I bought sail and snuffer together, and the snuffer works very well. I have seen snuffers with a "one sided" pull down, whereas mine has a webbing strop from both sides that ends with a D ring for the snuffer line. That arrangement pulls it evenly.