Day Skipper v Yacht Master

[ianat182]

Doing the day Skipper Theory course followed by the Practical is the normal route, however it may be advantageous to do the Practical aboard your own boat with an RYA examiner, and to include your wife or regular crew member(s); of course your boat will need to have the necessary safety equipment and gear, but could work out cheaper than chartering a 'school' boat, and improve familiarisation with strategies of skippering, mooring and anchoring, reefing, motoring, sailing, but using your own gear.

Also to consider is the DSC/VHF Course licence and the Mayday routines and procedures,usually a 1 day course.

Build yourself a small library of almanacs and Tide tables,and I recommend the REED' SKIPPER'S HANDBOOK published by Adlard Coles and available at chandleries or on Amazon for around £5-7; it contains virtually everything you need to know for offshore or inland sailing and the Dayskipper details for testing each other as a quiz.

Hope this helps.

ianat182

Basic safety gear could be Flares,Lifebuoy and line, Harnesses for all crew, lifejackets, fire extuingishers,radio.

 

[GrahamM376]

Doing the day Skipper Theory course followed by the Practical is the normal route, however it may be advantageous to do the Practical aboard your own boat with an RYA examiner, and to include your wife or regular crew member(s); of course your boat will need to have the necessary safety equipment and gear, but could work out cheaper than chartering a 'school' boat, and improve familiarisation with strategies of skippering, mooring and anchoring, reefing, motoring, sailing, but using your own gear.

That's the route I took. Had done a Comp Crew course as a taster and DS theory then bought a Centaur and got onboard tuition/dayskipper practical with Hamble School of Yachting which finished with sailing 2 handed (instructor and me) from Hamble to Conwy with one stop at Falmouth. Engine packed up coming out of Falmouth but we kept going. January, no autopilot, heater or engine - must have been mad but a steep learning curve!

 

[timbartlett]

Personally I think it would be a good idea if the word yachtmaster did only refer to examined qualifications.

+1

But it would be very difficult for all those people who have been telling everyone that they are Yachtmasters to admit that that they aren't any more because the old "Yachtmaster (Evening Class Desk and Dining Room Table Only)" certificate has been withdrawn!

 

[Babylon]

Two participants on a Day Skipper practical course. One never been sailing before (aside from a weekend as passenger). The other had done a fair amount of crewing over eighteen months, and had also done the Day Skipper theory course. Guess who was full of BS the whole week. Guess who had a really positive learning experience.

 

[webcraft]

Two participants on a Day Skipper practical course. One never been sailing before (aside from a weekend as passenger). The other had done a fair amount of crewing over eighteen months, and had also done the Day Skipper theory course. Guess who was full of BS the whole week. Guess who had a really positive learning experience.

Guess who should not even have been on the course, even going by the incredibly lax RYA minimum requirements.

- W

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Guess who should not even have been on the course, even going by the incredibly lax RYA minimum requirements.

- W

A bit harsh - maybe the guy already knew some theory?

On a five day practical course there simply isn't enough time to teach people the theory as well, but an inexperienced person who is a quick learner can still get a lot out of the course - and be inspired to go off and learn the bits he doesn't know.

After all, these are courses for amateurs.

 

[webcraft]

A bit harsh - maybe the guy already knew some theory?

On a five day practical course there simply isn't enough time to teach people the theory as well, but an inexperienced person who is a quick learner can still get a lot out of the course - and be inspired to go off and learn the bits he doesn't know.

After all, these are courses for amateurs.

You can't have read the post I was responding to:

One never been sailing before (aside from a weekend as passenger).

Mimimum pre-course experience to attend a DS course is 5 days, 100 miles, 4 night hours on board a sailing yacht. A knowledge of basic navigation and helmsmanship is assumed.



- W

 

[Barnacle Bill]

You can't have read the post I was responding to:




- W

I read it.

People's previous experience comes in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, and as an amateur, and indeed a customer, this guy may have got a lot out of the course. I see no harm in that.

 

[webcraft]

I read it.

People's previous experience comes in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, and as an amateur, and indeed a customer, this guy may have got a lot out of the course. I see no harm in that.

The fact remains that according to the RYA's guidelines he should not have been on the course. The course completion certiificate states that the holder has the ability to safely skipper a yacht in familiar waters by day.

Skipper a yacht? After a weekend as a passenger and a four and a half day course? With no shorebased course? Now that's what I call Fast Track!

The potential harm is to the other candidates. If the instructor has to spend an inordinate amount of time with one candidate to bring them up to speed then the other candidates can suffer as a result. The pre-course requirements are there for a good reason.

- W

 

[dslittle]

The potential harm is to the other candidates. If the instructor has to spend an inordinate amount of time with one candidate to bring them up to speed then the other candidates can suffer as a result. The pre-course requirements are there for a good reason.

- W

Have to agree. I have just done a skippered charter with a very dazed skipper failure who - when I said that we would have to be a bit careful going past Hurst Castle on springs - "but it's autumn". After I had stopped laughing at his very old joke I realised that he wasn't joking. I then had to explain to him at some length why high tide at Cherbourg was different to high tide at Dover. He had done a five day DS Course - I wouldn't have trusted him with a toy boat in the bath !!!

 

[timbartlett]

He had done a five day DS Course - I wouldn't have trusted him with a toy boat in the bath !!!

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here. If it is that the DS course is not worth having because this guy did not emerge from it as a competent skipper, I'm afraid I have to disagree.

It's like suggesting that if someone who struggles with addition ad subtraction emerges from a seminar on calculus without having learned how to multiply and divide, then the seminar must have been useless.

Unfortunately, from my days as a practical instructor, I would say that there are far too many people who try to skip the "lower" levels of the system. That's a while back, and things may have changed since then, but I doubt it, somehow.

 

[Sailfree]

I then had to explain to him at some length why high tide at Cherbourg was different to high tide at Dover.!!

I think a number would appreciate a simple explanation as to why the high tide at St Malo is greater than Cherbourg which in turn is greater than Portsmouth also why there is a double high in Poole.

Can anyone point to a simple explanation?

 

[dslittle]

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here. If it is that the DS course is not worth having because this guy did not emerge from it as a competent skipper, I'm afraid I have to disagree.

Far from it, earlier in my reply I did say he was a failure (and quite correctly IMO). I was commenting on the fact that he should never have been there in the first place. He did get a CC, probably as a consolation prize which should never have been given in view of his total incompetence on a yacht.
I fully endorse the training and subsequent qualifications obtained through the various courses and believe that hopefully everyone attending comes away with a bit more knowledge than they started with. By the time he got off my boat, I do believe that he had a better grasp of the basics but that was on a practically 1-2-1 basis. I have no doubt that he 'hid' behind the other three people on his Course and did not learn as much as he should have. Apparently he had done the theory before the practical but "found all of the working out a bit difficult" !!!

 

[dslittle]

I think a number would appreciate a simple explanation as to why the high tide at St Malo is greater than Cherbourg which in turn is greater than Portsmouth also why there is a double high in Poole.

Can anyone point to a simple explanation?

Think of the Channel as a big bath tub with the water sloshing backwards and forwards...

 

[webcraft]

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here. If it is that the DS course is not worth having because this guy did not emerge from it as a competent skipper, I'm afraid I have to disagree.

I think he was just agreeing with my point that people should fulfil a minimum requirement before they are accepted onto a Day Skipper course. It is not a course designed for complete novices, and if it is being used as such then the certificates being awarded are devalued IMO.

The utter bare minimum can be satisfied by people who have done a CC one year then not set foot on a yacht again - or read anything - until the next year when they turn up to do a DS. Surely we don't want to set the bar any lower than this?

- W

 

[Sailfree]

Think of the Channel as a big bath tub with the water sloshing backwards and forwards...

So why does the sloshing favour St Malo?? Why is Poole so favoured that it gets two high tides.

Or are you going to talk about reflected waves from France that cause the accretion of the land at Dungeness or longshore drift that causes errosion??

Frankly I thing tidal teaching leaves a lot to be desired and I have never seen a good explanation without BS.

 

[dslittle]

So why does the sloshing favour St Malo?? Why is Poole so favoured that it gets two high tides.

Or are you going to talk about reflected waves from France that cause the accretion of the land at Dungeness or longshore drift that causes errosion??

Frankly I thing tidal teaching leaves a lot to be desired and I have never seen a good explanation without BS.

Simple?

 

[Flying Penguin]

I think he was just agreeing with my point that people should fulfil a minimum requirement before they are accepted onto a Day Skipper course. It is not a course designed for complete novices, and if it is being used as such then the certificates being awarded are devalued IMO.

The utter bare minimum can be satisfied by people who have done a CC one year then not set foot on a yacht again - or read anything - until the next year when they turn up to do a DS. Surely we don't want to set the bar any lower than this?

- W

So... and this is an open question, I'm not gunning for any particular answer here... What would be the desirable (not current) minimum for a DS course? Obviously it would be great if everyone would do a season or two of serious crewing first, but I'm thinking more of basic competency for the sort of people that do the one or two week charter/flotilla a year, that don't necessarily own a boat or want to race every weekend.

I don't think the answer is "they just shouldn't go out sailing alone", judging by the number of people that do just that, year in, year out without incident, but I'd be interested to hear what people think the minimums really should be.

Cheers,

Jamie

 

[webcraft]

So... and this is an open question, I'm not gunning for any particular answer here... What would be the desirable (not current) minimum for a DS course? Obviously it would be great if everyone would do a season or two of serious crewing first, but I'm thinking more of basic competency for the sort of people that do the one or two week charter/flotilla a year, that don't necessarily own a boat or want to race every weekend.

I don't think the answer is "they just shouldn't go out sailing alone", judging by the number of people that do just that, year in, year out without incident, but I'd be interested to hear what people think the minimums really should be.

Cheers,

Jamie

I would like to see more in the logbook than just a previous Comp Crew course . . . and there is also a case IMO for making a theory course a prerequisite. The Essential Navigation & Seamanship course is only 16 hours and can be done on line.

- W

 

[timbartlett]

Far from it, earlier in my reply I did say he was a failure (and quite correctly IMO). I was commenting on the fact that he should never have been there in the first place.

OK, in that case we agree.

The problem is (IMHO) that too many people regard the Day Skipper as being the bottom rung on the ladder: perhaps they focus on the word "Day" rather than the word "skipper", and fail to recognise that it is significantly better than the "boat driving licence" that some countries require, and that it can be endorsed for commercial operation up to 20 miles from base.

Personally, I'd compare it with a driving licence: most people are capable of getting one, but not necessarily after the bare minimum of instruction and certainly not without a bit more practice than the course itself.

What would be the desirable (not current) minimum for a DS course?

Why is the current minimum wrong? My take on it is that everyone going on the course should have some experience. OTOH, someone who has a few season's dinghy sailing under their belt will be very good at some bits. Someone who has a few seasons motor cruising under theirs will be very good at others. I think there is a risk of saying "yes we need a bar" but then setting the bar too high. My feeling is that we just need to weed out the ones with no practical experience at all.

And yes, I think compulsory shore-based certificates would be a great idea... but I would say that, wouldn't I