mjcoon
Well-known member
Or sympathetic for their bereaved relatives, depending...
Dark waters: how the adventure of a lifetime turned to tragedy
- Thread starter KompetentKrew
- Start date
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
Personally, if I had £100k to spend on a sailing adventure, I'd buy a sturdy and well-sorted thirty footer for £30k then take two years off work and do a slow, detailed, leisurely cruise round the west coast of Ireland and up through the Western Isles. Plenty of beautiful sailing, full potential for a bit of adventure and risk, but a lot more Guinness and general craic than the Clipper race... But each to their own, and I do feel a bit of resistance to the project of removing all risk and personal responsibility from life.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Has any poster actually looked at the training the volunteers undergo before the start?
The participants will probably be more experienced after that than ....some of the posters.
The participants will probably be more experienced after that than ....some of the posters.
Adios
...
agreed entirely. The clipper race looks like drudgery to me. Taking the leisure out of sailing would take out most of the pleasure.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
To beat and bash to windward to the Fastnet rock and then not go the paltry extra miles for a well earnt pint of stout . ..
I don’t think I am The Right Stuff for Clipper ventures.
I don’t think I am The Right Stuff for Clipper ventures.
dunedin
Well-known member
And the changes made since these accidents over 6 years ago. Seems odd historic mud dredgingHas any poster actually looked at the training the volunteers undergo before the start?
The participants will probably be more experienced after that than ....some of the posters.
mattonthesea
Well-known member
I looked at the Clipper and Challenger experiences and decided against them. The idea of going to windward just because that was your earlier intention! And they stop in cities when there are so many anchorages!
Each to their own. I chose to hang upside down, on my own, with my head under the engine, while I learnt how to fix a leaking stern gland, a thousand miles from land.
Risk assessment and risk appetite are strange things.
Each to their own. I chose to hang upside down, on my own, with my head under the engine, while I learnt how to fix a leaking stern gland, a thousand miles from land.
Risk assessment and risk appetite are strange things.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
...
The amount of effort that the drilling industry has put in to make the area around the rotary table safe, is significant: mechanisation to remove people, red zones, positional monitoring, anti collision and now AI and various positional detection technologies built into machines, hard hats cameras. The Clipper race just tells you to clip on.
Frogmogman
Well-known member
I think my favourite line in the article was “Trainee crew also sail offshore, mostly in the Solent,”
Pete7
Well-known member
Week one is in the Solent learning how to use the sails. Week two in the channel. Sis spent a week bashing up and down last Sept with winds of F7 on one of the Clippers. We were storm bound in Portland and Weymouth on our own yacht. She withdrew after that week, deciding it wasn't what she wanted to do.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Have you read the Clipper standard operating procedures?
KompetentKrew
Well-known member
Has any poster actually looked at the training the volunteers undergo before the start?
The participants will probably be more experienced after that than ....some of the posters.
The article says:
"Training for the Clipper race consists of four courses, levels 1-4, each lasting a week. This process, which is compulsory for participants, covers basic sailing techniques – headsail changes, tacking, gybing, helming; as well as race strategy and safety."
(and also that one of these four weeks is spent Channel sailing which, according to @Pete7's comment, can be in quite serious conditions).
(and also that one of these four weeks is spent Channel sailing which, according to @Pete7's comment, can be in quite serious conditions).
Probably by the end of a round-the-world trip these guys are all pretty seasoned, but are there really many here with less than 4 weeks' sailing experience?
KompetentKrew
Well-known member
The home is the place where most accidents occur because it's where people spend the most time. This includes unsupervised children and grannies talking a fall.
KompetentKrew
Well-known member
I assume the story was published as "newsworthy" because the Clipper settled the widow's litigation a few weeks ago.
It's not like there was never a paid mate before - these deaths occurred after "Knox-Johnston lobbied the MCA to allow him to replace the second qualified person with a trained-up member of the fee-paying crew." The request was refused initially but the MCA relented a couple of years later after a change in leadership there. Knox-Johnston's rationale for scrapping the second qualified hand was that "it is not financially sustainable”. Then the deaths occurred and the second paid crew member was reintroduced.
ridgy
Well-known member
Wold having a second paid crew have prevented any of these deaths? I don't think so. They all occurred in an instant and the unpaid crew made Mate were already experienced sailors, probably YM, who probably signed up with that role in mind.
ashtead
Well-known member
My concern with this type of set up would be the state of the boat -it might be even with top new kit these sad events would have occurred though -I’ve only to be fair sailed around the Solent on one of these corpoate jollies but it did strike me as somewhat tatty at edges . That said I guess it’s much like a chart yacht but doing a lot more risky stuff. I recall a former work colleague spent the Atlantic leg being very sick and was refused permission to continue due to medical concerns but I just wonder what pressure the paid skippers are under to keep kit spend down ? It’s a bit of a conflict maybe for them if bits are failing but under shareholder pressure surely?
xyachtdave
Well-known member
I’ve spoken with 3 people who’ve done it, a common theme of these conversations, being on a boat full of vomit, stinking of wee, with people arguing, didn’t sound appealing.
But best of luck to anyone that fancies it though.
But best of luck to anyone that fancies it though.
Sandy
Well-known member
Not my cup of tea, but I have no interest in 'racing'. However I sail with a couple of friends who have done it, one of them the circumnavigation and on a boat that had a fatality. From what I have heard I'd would never consider sailing with Clipper.
The movement of the boats off the UK registry spoke volumes. Are they still sailing on the Malta registry?
The movement of the boats off the UK registry spoke volumes. Are they still sailing on the Malta registry?
Laser310
Well-known member
i've done a lot of ocean racing
sure.., if comfort is important, it's probably not something you will enjoy.., and, I am mostly on pretty nice boats...
However arguing is something that I never see.
But still, this article seems to be written by someone who decided ahead of time what sort of article they would write; business: bad.., money making: bad.., bereaved family: victims of rapacious capitalists...
It's obvious the author has no understanding of ocean racing, and most of the supposed problems identified in the article had no bearing on the accident.
when i go offshore i tell my family not to expect my body if anything goes wrong.
laika
Well-known member
Because you’re with other actual ocean racers who knew roughly what to expect when they signed on rather than a bunch of randoms, not just the paying punters but also some inserted by sponsors, most of whom probably had no idea what they were letting themselves in for and are crammed together in stressful conditions for a year.
Reading some of the blogs over the years (all the good ones seem to have vanished) the group dynamics are fascinating and I’m half tempted to sign on just to observe it first hand.
A common theme in what I read seemed to be a division between those who actively participate in the sailing and those who try to avoid it and and aren’t seen to be pulling their weight: but perhaps we need first hand experience to comment on the main friction points.
I wonder how much the skipper selection process takes into account management of the types of interactions a normal racing skipper wouldn’t have to deal with.
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