KompetentKrew
Well-known member
Newspaper article on the Clipper race: Dark waters: how the adventure of a lifetime turned to tragedy
Dark waters: how the adventure of a lifetime turned to tragedy
- Thread starter KompetentKrew
- Start date
ridgy
Well-known member
Bit of a hatchet job IMHO.
laika
Well-known member
But not entirely inconsistent with some of the posts we’ve seen here from former participants
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
I read the article and found it interesting, but I didn't feel that it addressed the underlying issue, which seems to me to be that racing a yacht around the world has some inherent risks that can't really be fully mitigated, and the people who sign up do so because they want to face some risk and hardship. But can we as a society accept that some people choose to do things that might result in injury or death?
That said, in this case it did sound as though the lifeline setup might not have been ideal - he was clipped on to a location and with a line length that allowed him to go right overboard and be dragged along through the water. But obviously you'd need to see the deck layout to properly comment on that.
That said, in this case it did sound as though the lifeline setup might not have been ideal - he was clipped on to a location and with a line length that allowed him to go right overboard and be dragged along through the water. But obviously you'd need to see the deck layout to properly comment on that.
dunedin
Well-known member
So why is this article newsworthy 6 years after the event. And after the second qualified mate was introduced, following these concerns?
The lifeline issues were also extensively debated at the time, on hetevand elsewhere, though not sure if manufacturers in the end made any effective modifications to the clups.
The lifeline issues were also extensively debated at the time, on hetevand elsewhere, though not sure if manufacturers in the end made any effective modifications to the clups.
Adios
...
"There have been other fatal accidents on the Clipper race, too. On 4 September 2015, Andrew Ashman, 49, a paramedic from Orpington, south-east London, was standing in a known danger zone in the yacht’s cockpit area when he was struck by the boom and suffered a fatal neck injury."
Standing in the cockpit? The maniac. Someone should be sued.
Standing in the cockpit? The maniac. Someone should be sued.
Adios
...
Wansworth
Well-known member
Omg..the home is one of the worlds most dangerous placesThe message is clear
Pirx
Active member
My view is that trhe hatchet could be sharper: I'm a bit cynical about companies organising 'races' for profit.
The MAIB reports are here:
Man overboard from commercially operated yacht CV30 with loss of 1 life
Accidents on board yacht CV21 resulting in loss of 2 lives
The MAIB reports are here:
Man overboard from commercially operated yacht CV30 with loss of 1 life
Accidents on board yacht CV21 resulting in loss of 2 lives
Adios
...
You're right! Facts and figures - RoSPAOmg..the home is one of the worlds most dangerous places
Facts and figures
- The home is the most common location for an accident to happen
- Every year across the UK, there are approximately 6,000 deaths as a result of home accidents
Adios
...
Imagine being one of the remaining crew on that yacht where 2 were already killed, wondering which one of them was next.
Its definitely not something I would expect to be very safe or enjoyable. A large yacht with heavy gear crewed by random inexperienced people who had a fantasy of themselves as global voyagers but not enough gumption or will to learn to spend the 50-100K on a boat of their own and expenses to do it by themselves. Its not a safety in numbers situation, more like the reverse.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Shades of queues going. Up mount everest
mjcoon
Well-known member
There's an article in current New Scientist about people's increased reluctance to leave their residences post Covid...The message is clear
Wansworth
Well-known member
I notice I am more anxious since covid,hence doubts about buying a boat
Supine Being
Well-known member
There's an awful lot of power in that rig. The phrase used is as per Clipper Races' own training, and as quoted below from the MAIB report:
Adios
...
True. I wouldn't want to start a job doing this where everyone else is new as well. Thats the problem with these paying crew things. If the whole crew was professional with one or 2 greenhorns it might be ok. But the whole crew is amateurs with some training. It might be worse than a volunteer crew if the people are paying they might be even less professional and more entitled feeling/stroppy/unmanageable.
Adios
...
Should be the safest place to be. Furthest from home! Follow the science, stay safe!
steve yates
Well-known member
Its ocean racing, it shouldnt be a payable event for punters to play in anyway, but since it is, then they pays their money and they takes their chances. If you participate in dangerous risk sports you have to expect injury or death as potential outcomes.
These are circumstances where your own personal judgement and experience are paramount, and the backup of carefully chosen, loyal, partners. In a dangerous place or situation, you do not want to be relying on random punters you do not know. Sometimes, you just get ot wrong, or are just unlucky, then you pay the price.
C’est La Vie.
These are circumstances where your own personal judgement and experience are paramount, and the backup of carefully chosen, loyal, partners. In a dangerous place or situation, you do not want to be relying on random punters you do not know. Sometimes, you just get ot wrong, or are just unlucky, then you pay the price.
C’est La Vie.
Supine Being
Well-known member
True. I would you want to start a job doing this where everyone else is new as well. Thats the problem with these paying crew things. If the whole crew was professional with one or 2 greenhorns it might be ok. But the whole crew is amateurs with some training. It might be worse than a volunteer crew if the people are paying they might be even less professional and more entitled feeling/stroppy/unmanageable.
Absolutely agree! I was chatting to someone a while back, saying that I used to quite fancy doing a Clipper but I didn't have the time or money. Now that I could feasibly arrange both of those things, there's no way I'm interested. And the person I was talking to had exactly the same thoughts.
Maybe I'm just a little older and wiser (everything is relative), but if I take a risk, I want to take it on my own terms. If I'm relying on crew members and someone else's equipment, I want to know that they are trustworthy. If a crew mate has never sailed until about 6 months ago, even if they are smart and motivated, then no amount of training can be a substitute for time spent at sea and the experience to spot how a situation is developing. And you might be on a boat full of them, barrelling down waves in the southern ocean.
There are too many variables as a paying customer on these things and, as someone said earlier in the thread, it's simply impossible to mitigate against many of the risks. It's not for me.
justanothersailboat
Active member
"But can we as a society accept that some people choose to do things that might result in injury or death?" - let's put this the other way around: how can "we as a" society survive this relentless, and horrendous, modern campaign to stop people choosing to do things that they enjoy because those things might result in injury or death? This way lies madness... whatever you enjoy doing will end up in their sights eventually... and don't forget people die every year trying to put their trousers on.
Personally I think joining a race in the Southern Ocean with no experience, on a crew mostly composed of (as Athomson says) random inexperienced people, is an choice I myself would probably not make. Many people seem to enjoy it - I can still be happy for them.
Personally I think joining a race in the Southern Ocean with no experience, on a crew mostly composed of (as Athomson says) random inexperienced people, is an choice I myself would probably not make. Many people seem to enjoy it - I can still be happy for them.
