Damsel in distress

[Tranona]

...
All I have done is to suggest a type of boat that goes a long way towards meeting some, if not most, of the OP's requirements.

Having owned such a boat for a very long time, and having no reason to be disappointed in my choice, I am well qualified to point out its merits. Which I have done in my usual enthusiastic way.

Unlike you, I have not sought to disparage anyone else, or their suggestions.

But there lies the difference between you and me.

I suggest. You pontificate.

The difference is that you have not owned a modern boat.

You are not disappointed because your boat meets your needs - but they are not the needs of the OP.

On the other hand I have owned both types and sailed for years with a young family, both children and grandchildren so I have suggested boats that reflect that experience.

 

[Tranona]

I helped build a 9 and 12 tonner in 1969……..a brand new Hillyard with shining varnish ,was a magnificent sight

Lovely to look at but hopeless as a family boat compared with what else is available now.

 

[Wansworth]

Lovely to look at but hopeless as a family boat compared with what else is available now.

I suppose your right ,transome access much easier with small children

 

[Tranona]

I suppose your right ,transome access much easier with small children

Don't forget the tiny cockpit, basic domestic facilities, poor sailing performance, lousy low speed performance and of course the constant leaks!

 

[Wansworth]

Don't forget the tiny cockpit, basic domestic facilities, poor sailing performance, lousy low speed performance and of course the constant leaks!

But looking with hindsight,my dad would have died for a 9tonner………and there was not all this polishing fandango

 

[Poignard]

The difference is that you have not owned a modern boat.

You are not disappointed because your boat meets your needs - but they are not the needs of the OP.

On the other hand I have owned both types and sailed for years with a young family, both children and grandchildren so I have suggested boats that reflect that experience.

I have not owned a 'modern boat' but in my post #76, I wrote:

"I have sailed in many other types of yachts but none, except for a Rustler, has made me think of changing to anything else."

Included among the 'many types' are an Oyster, various Westerlys, at least two Beneteaus, a Sadler, and other types, the details of which I cannot now recall.

But, leaving that aside, you are persisting in ignoring what Captain Fitroy, the original poster, has said she likes and wants.

She likes a boat with classic lines and adequate accomodation.

Accomodation adequate for herself, her husband and a baby. Not for a large family with kids and their paraphernalia.

She has even gone on to give a few examples of the types of yacht that attract her, eg a Contessa 32. A type not renowned for the spaciousness of its interior.

You really ought to try reading what someone who comes here asking for advice has actually posted before you begin pontificating about non-existent scenarios that have no relevance to their situation.

I say this as a friend . . .

 

[Poignard]

I would not take small kids sailing in ANY yacht. Leave em at home with the grandparents. That is what they are for

As a grandparent, I totally reject that advice!

 

[Wansworth]

As a grandparent, I totally reject that advice!

Took my children yachting although we had frought momments

 

[Poignard]

Took my children yachting although we had frought momments

My wife and I took two young granchildren out in our Twister (and brought two back uninjured). They loved it.

 

[Tranona]

I have not owned a 'modern boat' but in my post #76, I wrote:

"I have sailed in many other types of yachts but none, except for a Rustler, has made me think of changing to anything else."

Included among the 'many types' are an Oyster, various Westerlys, at least two Beneteaus, a Sadler, and other types, the details of which I cannot now recall.

But, leaving that aside, you are persisting in ignoring what Captain Fitroy, the original poster, has said she likes and wants.

She likes a boat with classic lines and adequate accomodation.

Accomodation adequate for herself, her husband and a baby. Not for a large family with kids and their paraphernalia.

She has even gone on to give a few examples of the types of yacht that attract her, eg a Contessa 32. A type not renowned for the spaciousness of its interior.

You really ought to try reading what someone who comes here asking for advice has actually posted before you begin pontificating about non-existent scenarios that have no relevance to their situation.

I say this as a friend . . .

I have read everything including the OPs subsequent posts.

Before that though I was particularly struck by your post#18. Read that again and you will see why I question your advice. BTW not the first time you have made similar comments. Then post#29 from the OP in response to your suggestion. Then post# 28 in response to a Victoria 30 (which is a palace down below compared with a Twister) and in the same post a positive response to the (sensible) suggestion of a Hanse. Then back to post#19 which states "saloon size" as being a priority.

I think you might get the drift that a Twister would not even be on the list. The OP has £30k budget and this opens up a wide range of suitable boats in the 28-32' size range, particularly from UK builders (and some European) from the late 70s through early 90s that were designed for "family" sailing unlike many earlier designs.

I am not sure why you persist in promoting a Twister as "the answer to every what boat question" when it is clearly not in this case - apart from "classic lines" it does not meet the basic requirements and has been firmly rejected by the OP.

 

[Tranona]

They sell for close to 20k, far more than most similarly sized old boats.

They do indeed, but that reflects the scarcity value and the lack of any sensible alternatives IF that is the type of boat you are looking for.

Instructive to read the sales blurb in the listings. Phrases like "ocean going" "suitable for Jester challenge", "designed to win races" plus emphasis on looks, quality of build, state of maintenance and high level of (mostly) offshore equipment give an idea of the target market. Not a single mention of "ideal for family cruising" or similar.

You can of course take small children cruising in such boats - many did in the day because that is what they had. Just as I recounted in another post I used to take as many as 3 young children with me in my 26' Eventide, even around Portland Bill to Lyme Regis and back to Poole because that is the boat I had. However ask my children now which they preferred, my later Bavarias or the Eventide. No prizes for guessing the answer. This is not to say cruising in small cramped boats is not fun and a great experience, just that attitudes and expectations have changed and modern boats are simply better at the job.

 

[rotrax]

In 1970 First Mate and I took a camping trip, by motorcycle, to Wroclaw in deepest darkest Iron Curtain Poland to watch the Speedway World Final.

Would a newly married 23 and 21 year old couple do the same today, remembering that we had to do the 14 day trip on a £100.00 all in due to the £50.00 each currency restriction?

I very much doubt it, because the expectation of the younger generation is so much higher.

They would expect to fly and stay in Hotels.

Same with boats. The first 'sleep aboard' boat we had, as a half share with a neighbour, was a 16 foot plywood cabin cruiser. The four of us had a fondue party in the cockpit in the Canal Basin at Stratford on Avon under a tarpaulin held up by the boathook and a broom. Two gundogs and an acoustic guitar were on board too!

Far too 'downmarket' for young persons these days.

I think Tranona has it about right. I would love a Wooden Classic, but now I can easily afford one I am aware of the maintenance required and keep well away from such delights.

Bringing kids into the equasion alters the ideal. We sold our lovely narrowboat as we could not ensure the safety of our first child when working the boat.

The picture is taken in the official campsite in Wroclaw,September 1970. Dont we look young! The background is the sheets on the line for the cabins in the campsite..

 

[Praxinoscope]

I think both tranona and rotrax have raised a valid point, it seem to ne that few of todays generation are prepared tom'rough it' in the way rotrax describes, our first ' boat ' as opposed to a dinghy was a Leisure 17, four lads in their early 20's clubbed together and bought one new from Cobramould (they were sed in an old Nissen on Luton airport), first year we couldn't afford bunk cushions so he four of us slept directly upon the grp bunks for a two week holiday (Christchurch to Torquay and back). Later we progressed to a Foxterrier 22 (Luxury in comparison) and sailed this around Brittany and Channel Islands, for one Plymouth week of racing my ex SWMBO and I raced with our 6 month daughter bundled up in a carry cot in one of the after berths. It must have had some sort of affect upon her as she gained her YM offshore when she was 22. (Don't think she included the mileage during Plymouth week as part of her qualifying sea time.)
Much as I admire the Contessa 32, it's a lovely boat to sail and looks like a boat should look, but it's accommodation is very dated and compared to later designs very cramped, Being a Sadler fan I would definitely look very closely at the Sadler 29 , can't afford one myself otherwise I would have one, and they are well within the O.P.'s budget, I'm not a fan of the Fulmar but have to accept that they meet the O.P.'s specs and they do sail well.

 

[Wansworth]

I think both tranona and rotrax have raised a valid point, it seem to ne that few of todays generation are prepared tom'rough it' in the way rotrax describes, our first ' boat ' as opposed to a dinghy was a Leisure 17, four lads in their early 20's clubbed together and bought one new from Cobramould (they were sed in an old Nissen on Luton airport), first year we couldn't afford bunk cushions so he four of us slept directly upon the grp bunks for a two week holiday (Christchurch to Torquay and back). Later we progressed to a Foxterrier 22 (Luxury in comparison) and sailed this around Brittany and Channel Islands, for one Plymouth week of racing my ex SWMBO and I raced with our 6 month daughter bundled up in a carry cot in one of the after berths. It must have had some sort of affect upon her as she gained her YM offshore when she was 22. (Don't think she included the mileage during Plymouth week as part of her qualifying sea time.)
Much as I admire the Contessa 32, it's a lovely boat to sail and looks like a boat should look, but it's accommodation is very dated and compared to later designs very cramped, Being a Sadler fan I would definitely look very closely at the Sadler 29 , can't afford one myself otherwise I would have one, and they are well within the O.P.'s budget, I'm not a fan of the Fulmar but have to accept that they meet the O.P.'s and they do sail well.

There are more people with disposable income these days

 

[Praxinoscope]

There are more people with disposable income these days

Not so sure of this, cost of housing considerably higher percentage to salaries than 40 years ago, further education no longer 'free', with student loans to be repaid, to mention just a couple of things.

 

[Wansworth]

Not so sure of this, cost of housing considerably higher percentage to salaries than 40 years ago, further education no longer 'free', with student loans to be repaid, to mention just a couple of things.

So where is the money coming from?

 

[yoda]

Well, ish. Call it early mid-life crisis, call it the wanderlust brought on from glimpsing a tiny little more independence now my baby has turned one. I wish to seek your wise counsel about what yachts you would put on your wishlist if you were in my position, thus:

Practical, experienced reformed-racing sailor with a passion for classic yachts (but neither the time nor budget for their upkeep) WLTM approx. 30ft monohull capable of easy singlehanded sailing. Solid, seakindly, comfortable with a hint of wood-panelled library down below to keep my (keen but creature-comfort loving) husband happy. Budget approx. £30k. However, I am really not keen on tubby, slow yachts (I'm not naming names; you know who I mean).

The Solent and south-coast will be the primary cruising ground, but I'd love to sail to the Scilly Isles, channel islands and northern Brittany coasts as I did throughout my childhood (although in racing yachts with significantly fewer cruising concessions than I am looking at now). We will sail all year round and I intend to keep her on a walk-ashore for the first year whilst everyone gets used to it all.

Current thoughts are Sadler 32, Contessa 32 (yes, yes I know but I've just returned from the Dartmouth Classics Regatta and I still love them), Hunter Channel 31, Elan 333?! I am finding it hard to reconcile my need for practical, spacious accommodation with my preference for long, classic lines and the "row away factor". Are there suggestions of anything a bit smaller, to keep overheads low and handling super-easy?

How about a Westerly Storm?

 

[jac]

So where is the money coming from?

Sailing is aging so I suspect it is coming from the usual people and sources - wealthy retirees with decent final salary pension schemes taking a lump sum, the slightly younger getting an inheritance from parents / grandparents whose houses appreciated a ridiculous amount.

The young ones who can afford to buy new without inheritance are those with high salaries/ bonuses or good investment luck - the rest just have to buy some smaller older boat and trust on diy skills to keep her going.

 

[Admiral Fitzroy]

Captain Fitzroy.

By now you have probably reached that stage, familiar to many who seek advice here, of wondering why you bothered asking in the first place.

But I would like to know what you do end up buying and, a couple of seasons later, whether you are happy with your choice.

Thank you!
We went and had a look at 3 yachts today: from Contessa 32, Sadler 32 and a British built AWB from the v early 0000s.
I was mindful of the overwhelming advice from the thread (other than to buy a Twister!) - to keep my crew happy and consider the practicalities. It’s an amazing reckonner putting your toddler on a boat and seeing what happens, isn’t it?

Perhaps because I am the sailor and also the mother, if we were to have another baby the yacht would languish unloved for a time and I just couldn’t do that to an old classic. My father bought a lovely Centurion, and lavished so much love and money on her, and she still looked tired and was just as needy as the day he bought her when he sold her. It’s just not a runner.

So it’s well-built solid AWB for us, and I’ll still lust after the lines but I’ll also not have a mutiny on my hands. There’s nothing more miserable than an unused boat.

 

[Poignard]

Thank you!
We went and had a look at 3 yachts today: from Contessa 32, Sadler 32 and a British built AWB from the v early 0000s.
I was mindful of the overwhelming advice from the thread (other than to buy a Twister!) - to keep my crew happy and consider the practicalities. It’s an amazing reckonner putting your toddler on a boat and seeing what happens, isn’t it?

Perhaps because I am the sailor and also the mother, if we were to have another baby the yacht would languish unloved for a time and I just couldn’t do that to an old classic. My father bought a lovely Centurion, and lavished so much love and money on her, and she still looked tired and was just as needy as the day he bought her when he sold her. It’s just not a runner.

So it’s well-built solid AWB for us, and I’ll still lust after the lines but I’ll also not have a mutiny on my hands. There’s nothing more miserable than an unused boat.

Sorry I won't have the pleasure of welcoming you and your husband to the Twister Class Association but I hope you will be very happy with whatever boat you end up owning.