cruising grounds for liveaboard - Greece vs Atlantic coast

[ndc333]

Hi, im looking to live aboard the majority of the year on the hook. Greece appears a defacto destination and has many appeals. However the season is short, july and august are too hot, and summer marina prices if i need to leave the boat for extended period appear very high. From reading forums, Croatia and turkey both now appear bureaucratic nightmares whilst italy is very expensive.
Could anybody give thoughts on the west/Atlantic coast? There appears lots of variety from the baltic to spain with portugal/spain for winter. There also appear reasonably priced marinas in summer e.g. denmark and france if the boat has to be left. But are there many places to live at anchor besides baltic (high summer) and the spanish rias? or maybe living on the hook is not practical?

Also is the sailing more fun/predictable on the west coast vs the med?

ps - i posted on the general forum - what to do if you need to leave the boat around Greece for a few months in summer - someone suggested you can put it on the hard for a reasonable price?

 

[Caladh]

Hi, im looking to live aboard the majority of the year on the hook. Greece appears a defacto destination and has many appeals. However the season is short, july and august are too hot, and summer marina prices if i need to leave the boat for extended period appear very high. From reading forums, Croatia and turkey both now appear bureaucratic nightmares whilst italy is very expensive.
Could anybody give thoughts on the west/Atlantic coast? There appears lots of variety from the baltic to spain with portugal/spain for winter. There also appear reasonably priced marinas in summer e.g. denmark and france if the boat has to be left. But are there many places to live at anchor besides baltic (high summer) and the spanish rias? or maybe living on the hook is not practical?

Also is the sailing more fun/predictable on the west coast vs the med?

ps - i posted on the general forum - what to do if you need to leave the boat around Greece for a few months in summer - someone suggested you can put it on the hard for a reasonable price?

Other than it being hot in July and August I think you've been misinformed about Greece.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Other than it being hot in July and August I think you've been misinformed about Greece.

I agree.

 

[ndc333]

> Other than it being hot in July and August I think you've been misinformed about Greece.
> I agree.
Could anyone let me know in which aspects i have been miss informed? I only made 3 points, 1 of which you agree with!
I have gathered the season is quite short from the winter berthing packages running for 6 months + comments on dangerous winds in low season. Are prices not high in high season?

Im a complete beginner so all info and tips are much appreciated.

 

[Artic Warrior]

I agree.

+1

 

[RAI]

I don't know about Greece but the Atlantic coast between Lagos and Gibraltar offer plenty of marinas and anchoring places. Most of the marinas have web sites and publish their fee tables.

 

[Tranona]

> Other than it being hot in July and August I think you've been misinformed about Greece.
> I agree.
Could anyone let me know in which aspects i have been miss informed? I only made 3 points, 1 of which you agree with!
I have gathered the season is quite short from the winter berthing packages running for 6 months + comments on dangerous winds in low season. Are prices not high in high season?

Im a complete beginner so all info and tips are much appreciated.

The season is shorter than the west from a holiday maker's point of view, running from April to October and winters can be cold and wet in parts. However many live all year round on board, but others prefer to lay up and go elsewhere for the winter. Remember many are only part time liveaboards and still maintain homes elsewhere.

The point is the choices are there and you learn to adapt to what suits you. For example the attraction of southern Spain and Portugal is the milder winter and much easier access in the winter months.

 

[ndc333]

i understand there is plenty of wintering in spain/portugal and the fee tables are published, but for the high season and the rest of the west coast - are there opportunities to live on the hook except for the rias? (or is most sailing done from marinas e.g. from west portugal coast to say Netherlands?)

 

[sailaboutvic]

A bunch of you guys have told OP his been miss inform but haven't told him why .
Let's answer your question
The season can be as long as you want it to be , we have sailed right up to Dec and started in March , we could had sailed longer but Jan and Feb can be wet plus we both needed to return back for personal reason for a few weeks , plus there work we like to get done and a bit of socialise.
so the boat goes in the Marina , Lefkas Marina to give you some idea in the winter did us a deal three months 600 euros that was three years ago

July and Aug can be hot , this year it was hotter then other years , but on anchor there normally always some breeze .
The bigger problem is June ,July and Aug are especially crowed , it's the high of the holiday seasons , plus Italy almost shut down so there are all over in Greece .

Marina can be expenses , in tho months , I can't say how much as we don't use them but I heard people quote 50 euros a night easy and a lot more .

As I said in the other posting , if you need to get away for a short time , there are people who will keep an eye on your boat at anchor or on a quay but make sure your covered .
I think your last question was can you live on the hook all yer round , yes you can as long as you are prepared to move , although I personally know few people who anchor on one island and don't every move over the winter .

 

[macd]

+1 with Vic.

ndc333: if you got the idea the Greek seasons were short simply on the basis of 6-month marina contracts, forget it. That's just the way they often construct their pricing. Sailing April to November is commonplace, although it doesn't appeal to everyone.

I'm not familiar with Croatia (and not likely to be, given their new fee structure), but don't dismiss Turkey. Wonderful country, great cruising ground, and now less busy than it's been for years. Your fear of a "bureaucratic nightmare" is overwrought. (And, after Brexit, it may be one of the few countries on the Atlantic coast or N side of the Med where you'll be allowed to spend an extended time.)

 

[duncan99210]

The Spanish Rias are a good cruising ground with plenty of anchorages and equally reasonably priced marinas if needed. There isn't much apart for marinas on the Portuguese coast until you get to the Algarve but there's plenty of folks on here who know far more about there than I do: look at the long running thread about that on this forum for more info.

Greece is a great cruising ground as has been said. The season is more or less as long as you care to make it but from late October to mid March direct flights from anywhere other than Athens at rare to nonexistent. Some airports close (Preveza for example) others have flights via Athens. And on the smaller islands, the tavernas and shops shut down for the winter, limiting your choice of places to revictual.
As to places to leave a boat for a period and how much it will cost is not an easy one to answer. The big, full service marinas (Gouvia, Lefkas, Zea) typically charge €50+ a night for a 12m boat but most of them offer monthly rates which offer a saving. It's usually about 10-14 nights before it becomes cheaper to pay for a months stay. Other marinas such as Preveza or Cleopatra offer lower level of service and facilities but are more reasonable per night (€20 per night in Preveza for example). Finally, there are places like Nidri where there are a number of individuals/companies offering guradinage services for anchored boats at low cost.

 

[nortada]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?338051-The-Truth-About-Sailing-On-The-Algarve

Covers the Bay of Cadiz but focuses on the Algarve.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

> Other than it being hot in July and August I think you've been misinformed about Greece.
> I agree.
Could anyone let me know in which aspects i have been miss informed? I only made 3 points, 1 of which you agree with!
I have gathered the season is quite short from the winter berthing packages running for 6 months + comments on dangerous winds in low season. Are prices not high in high season?

Im a complete beginner so all info and tips are much appreciated


Okay
I have been tied up to a town quay for the last month with water and within an 1\2 hour drive of an airport, for free for the last month ,I do have my own car and small motorbike so there are plenty of places to visit near and further away .
Last night I spent a very pleasant hour talking about Greek politics with the Sargent of the portpolice\ coastguard boat that is moored next to me.

As regard costs I visited the local supermarket on Fri. I bought
Fri
1 kilo is potatoes @ 45 cents per kilo
1 kilo bag of carrots @ 65cents per kilo
I bag of spinach @ 1.65€
A 600g piece of frozen cod @ 7.5€ per kilo.
1\2 kilo of white wine 1.67€

Saturday
Some of the potatoes
Some onions @ 60 cents per kilo.
Mushroom @ 1.65 for 400 g
A 400 g piece of what looked like and tasted ribeye steak 3.75€
A 1.5 kilo bottle of nice Syrah @ 5€. Non of the cheap stuff for me

Last night
A nice pork chop about 350 g for 2.40€
Some of the onions.
Some of the potatoes
Some of the carrots
Some of the mushrooms
And the last of the spinach.
Washed down with the last of the red wine.

The temp in the day was high twenties dropping to about 22* at supper time.

Forgot to mention the same Port police man is also the police diver and will put down a iron mooring for me for 1100 € and look after the boat through the winter.

I will let you work out the costs .

 

[Squeaky]

From reading forums, Croatia and turkey both now appear bureaucratic nightmares whilst italy is very expensive.

Good morning:

I don't know where the idea that Turkey is a bureaucratic nightmare came from but in my humble opinion it is a lot better then it was years ago. A 90/180 visa can be obtained on line while a one year residence permit can also be obtained partially on line but a visit to the nearest main immigration office is necessary to complete the documentation. There are agents in Marmaris, for example, that will take one to Mugla by car to make sure that everything goes smoothly.

I am not sure what people expect but it seems that some feel that they should just be able to waltz in and out of countries without so much as a "by your leave". Before complaining too much about the laws of the countries in the Med they should have a look at some of the hoops that citizens of these countries have to jump through in order to visit or spend time in the northern European countries.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[ndc333]

so greece is sounding good again (except for the summer heat).
one question thats just occurred to me, do the greeks hit cruisers for residency etc regards the 183 day rule like the spanish do? a quick google search shows no positive cases.

 

[ndc333]

> bureaucratic nightmare
for turkey i was referring to the transit log regards guests names etc which after further googling i believe may be false news.
> I am not sure what people expect but it seems that some feel that they should just be able to waltz in and out of countries
- your suggesting that however idiotic, badly designed, bureaucratic, unnecessarily complex and time wasting an entry procedure its ok? and the measure of this is that northern Europe has equally idiotic procedures?
- also i do take exception to this, its not long ago for example since the USA had an open boarder to Europe. Now, i can get turned away at a border and loose lots of time and money if a border guard dosnt like the style of my haircut. Is this the world you want?

 

[macd]

one question thats just occurred to me, do the greeks hit cruisers for residency etc regards the 183 day rule like the spanish do?

No, and for the most part neither do the Spanish in any systematic way.

It's conceivable that you might need a Greek tax number for certain things, such as getting a mobile phone contract. This is no cause for alarm and in no way implies you'd be asked to pay Greek income tax. It's actually just an identifier, akin to UK National Insurance numbers.

...the measure of this is that northern Europe has equally idiotic procedures?

I think he's suggesting that Turkish nationals, for instance, have a very much harder time gaining permission to stay in the UK for periods short or long than Brits do in Turkey. Think yourself lucky.

 

[TonyMS]

We met a couple who wintered in the Algarve, which possibly has the best winter climate in Europe, and spent the summer in the Rias. I think they lived on the hook all the time. The only snag with this is having to bash your way north up the Portuguese coast every spring.

We now spend our summers in the Ionian (and winters in the UK). IMO, neither the heat nor the crowds are a problem if you live at anchor away from the main fleshpots.

TonyMS

 

[Wansworth]

The lower. Galician rias offer year round wandering about with easy day sailing and sheltered harbors.Off season some form of heater will be needed but it's not that cold,maybe dampish although it looks like the climate is becoming drier.Once the tourist have gone you will have the chance to get to know the locals and have opportunities for sailing anytime.

 

[Yngmar]

We met a couple who wintered in the Algarve, which possibly has the best winter climate in Europe, and spent the summer in the Rias. I think they lived on the hook all the time. The only snag with this is having to bash your way north up the Portuguese coast every spring.

That's a good combination. Plenty of great anchorages and cruising in the Rias to suit all tastes and some very affordable marinas even in Summer. Algarve has ok winter deals but not that many anchorages. Bunch of boats here in Culatra look like they've been around a long time, and some winter on the Rio Guadiana, although apparently the river can rise by 6m after inland rains, so no place to leave the boat unattended. Switching countries avoids the taxation in both if you time it right.