Crisis, help urgently needed.

[simon barefoot]

Only just seen this thread, and skipped the middle 6 pages. Hopefully there is a way of displacing the water inside other than expensive salvage bags. Are there any diving clubs who could help? Training project for RNLI or similar? If all that can be done is to get her afloat and moved then maybe the scrap value of the component parts would offset the cost, and leave your son with the goodwill of the authorities and knowing that he did the right thing. Just take care of yourselves and don't do anything dangerous.

 

[simon barefoot]

Alternatively, contact a TV channel and see if they will commission a series of programmes with Tom Cunliff monitoring his progress - he might be able to turn it into a profit making exercise!

Now that's an idea! In this day of fly on the wall and 'reality' shows. Could be worth it. Grand Designs maybe? Sponsorship from suppliers?

 

[Graham_Wright]

Suggestion.
If the hole is toward the forward end of the boat can you get a crane to raise the forward end only.
(Requiring a smaller crane than a total lift.)
You may then be able to raise the one end sufficiently to patch the hole and then start pumping and closing water tight doors. One section at a time.

Unfortunately there is a 2 ton weight limit on the dockside.

However, the boat does have 4 "watertight" compartments. There is no below deck communication between compartments (i.e. no watertight doors). The integrity has been prejudiced by cutting hydraulic and refrigerant lines and not sealing them as well as wear and tear holes. The last exercise yesterday was to concentrate on pumping the for'rard end and I do believe (according to my plumb line) that the bow started to lift albeit by a very small amount. If it were possible to get some air space in there, it would be easier to find any leaks and seal them. Then with this positive feedback, the situation could get easier. As the residual(!) water drained sternwards, leaks further aft could be searched for more comfortably because of the improved visibility.

To be on board removing our salvage kit when the tide started to flood, was a scary experience even though intrinsically safe.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I think you need to encourage your son to view the long game.
Even if you float the boat again and manage to beach her and repair the damage, will he be even further in debt?
What chance is there that the boat will ever be refurbished and become a home for him?
If he didn't really have the funds before, this will surely, be the end of the project.

Are there alternatives? Could he gift the boat to someone who has more funds available to effect a re-floatation? It's the end of his dream either way.

Fortunately the work done by the previous owner was B&Q and MFI standard with very little real below decks quality all scheduled for stripping out. The engine was in reasonable condition as was the gearbox despite its clutch problem. A concern is knowing how to salvage the former once it looks possible to raise her. Perhaps this is one for the power boat forum (haven't looked at that yet!).

 

[longjohnsilver]

I think you're going to need full salvage flotation bags as well as the pumps, there are so many (normally) above the waterline holes that water will just poor in through. Best wishes to you and your son, it maybe that in all honesty the best way is for him to walk away, it will them become the harbour authorities problem as he has no assets to pay for a salvage and the boat will not be worth anything after it's lifted in any case. As others have said, don't add your own life to the bill for this sad event, diving in a fish hold with six inches of visibility - would you let someone else do that?

Almost exactly what I would advise. A sad end but much better than a potentially tragic end.

 

[maby]

Fortunately the work done by the previous owner was B&Q and MFI standard with very little real below decks quality all scheduled for stripping out. The engine was in reasonable condition as was the gearbox despite its clutch problem. A concern is knowing how to salvage the former once it looks possible to raise her. Perhaps this is one for the power boat forum (haven't looked at that yet!).

Well, all the mechanics will need to be completely stripped, washed out thoroughly, dried and relubricated as soon as possible, of course. The most critical thing will be to get the salt out, then get it dry - the rest can take its time...

 

[longjohnsilver]

Are you serious ?. Just walk away and let others be responsible for the work and expenditure ?? very considerate !! And the panel has slated Daydreamer for stating reality !! I really despair .

Unfortunately what other options does he have? Op has already told us this is his only asset. And to hear of a 73 year old amateur becoming a salvage diver in zero visibility conditions is crazy, a tragedy waiting to happen.

I'd love to be able to give constructive advice about raising the vessel at no or little cost, but that's not possible. Even with unlimited funding I can't see how it can be done.

 

[Lakesailor]

Precisely. I already suggested standing back and looking at the likely eventual outcome, but it looks like the OP has the bit between his teeth.

 

[ffiill]

One comment all be it a bit late-there is no way British Waterways would have let this boat through the Caledonian Canal without a minimum 3rd party insurance plus they have reason to be wary of fishing boats.

 

[clyst]

Unfortunately what other options does he have? Op has already told us this is his only asset. And to hear of a 73 year old amateur becoming a salvage diver in zero visibility conditions is crazy, a tragedy waiting to happen.

I'd love to be able to give constructive advice about raising the vessel at no or little cost, but that's not possible. Even with unlimited funding I can't see how it can be done.

Yes I agree that he will have little option but just to runaway from a situation that the family is now in through their own fault bynot having any insurance just seems sooooo wrong.
I note on another forum that the dad has stressed that families should stick together and support each other so maybe dad will remortgage or be of some financial help ? We don't know and will have to wait and see. All this hassle because of saving a few hundred pounds on 3rd party insurance . Sorry for the thread drift.

 

[TradewindSailor]

What is the actual normal displacement of the hull? i.e. the weight? Not the Nett / Gross Registered Tonnage.
What capacity are the water tight zones? If you can seal these off and pump them out, you may be able to lift her.
If you can only get to the hole from the inside, stuff rags in the hole, a plank to hold the rags in, and a plank to shore it up .... not easy, but it may be possible.
Of course you need a huge pumping capacity to counter the inflow. A salvor friend of mine made up a huge centrifugal pump that literally threw the water out ..... of course he also had to get the air in too!!

 

[WestWittering]

Diving clubs keep getting mentioned, but there is no way that a BSAC Diving Officer would let a member near this and the PADI ones would not have the faintest idea. The best you could hope for would be a loan of some gear (possibly).

I have forwarded the pertinent post to my mate a full-blown commercial & salvage diver, but his boat with a crane is on the East Coast, but he may have a contact who would help.

I think cost wise, you may find a commie who would be able to get strops on, but it sounds like you are going to need a boat with a crane as the quay is not strong enough. Pumps & a way to plug the hole(s) is what is needed, but this will take some time.

The other place I suggest is The Dive Forum Someone kind may lend you some HID lights and there are several commies on there who might help. http://www.thediveforum.com/forum.php

Di

Regarding floating around trying to work, if the position of the hole allows you to reach it, take your fins off & go negative. Get the missus to tie the end of the safety line to something as a back up. You really need someone kitted up ready to go in if you have a problem. I so seriously have my doubts about this.

Edit : should be go negative, then take fins off.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The engine will be salvageable but it requires to be stripped sufficiently to flush with fresh water and clean up; it's not the first engine to be submerged, recovered and put back into use.

Lakesailor's long term view reminded me of a similar project. There is a company in Scotland who use converted fishing boats for luxury tours. They basically strip out the fish hold and cut open the deck. They then insert a box into the hull that has already been fitted out with accommodation. The final 'at ship' adjustments and connections to the utilities are made. The advantages are that the hull can easily be stripped back and made good with just the mounting arrangements for the box put into the space. The shelter deck would come off and the top of the box is about where the shelter deck is.

I wish you the best of luck and hope it comes together or at least doesn't get any worse.

Regards,

BlowingOldBoots

 

[Tintin]

This is a heartbreaking tale. I can fully underdstand why Graham is doing all he can to help.

Saying "give up" is not going to help really I think - so much seems to be invested in this both fginancially and emotionally.

But Graham PLEASE try to have someone else with you when you dive who can also dive and is kitted up so they can assist. What you are doing on your won is truly courageous but I shudder at the risks you are taking, and I am sure your wife will not wanting to be calling for help if you fail to come back.

I know nothing about salvage, but is there any merit in trying to get air into sealed areas to displace water back out the holes?

Good luck to you and your son.

 

[Talulah]

Looking at the video clip below you don't need that much flotation.
Just enough to get her off the bottom.
Then you can tow her out where you can beach the boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804fDi0d-hU

 

[fireball]

I know nothing about salvage, but is there any merit in trying to get air into sealed areas to displace water back out the holes?

I know nothing about salvage either - but I wonder about the possibility of using air bags beneath the decks - not to float her, but just to displace the water and prevent it returning - probably not a good idea though ...

Good luck to you and your son.

Indeed ...

 

[maby]

I know nothing about salvage either - but I wonder about the possibility of using air bags beneath the decks - not to float her, but just to displace the water and prevent it returning - probably not a good idea though ...
...

That was one of my first reactions too, but if you think about the physics of it, unless you can seal the holes below the water line, this will just have the effect of transferring the full weight of the ship onto the deck and roof structures - they would not have been designed for that even when new and in its present condition, I would imagine that it would split apart.

 

[Avocet]

Looking at the video clip below you don't need that much flotation.
Just enough to get her off the bottom.
Then you can tow her out where you can beach the boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804fDi0d-hU

Beat me to it! I have absolutely no expertise in salvage, but that strikes me as the only potentially feasible DIY way to go. If you can just get the waterlogged hulk to float even slightly, I think Fleetwood used to have a big trolley on rails on a slipway for hauling trawlers out. You might just be able to get it to float high enough on a high tide to get it on top of the trolley, and then gradually empty it as it settles on to the trolley over the period of a few tides until it's light enough to haul up the slip. The trick will be not breaking it's back with the weight of water in it. Perhaps even lowering it back down the slipway as the water level falls to keep it only just resting on the trolley?

 

[MYStargazer]

If strops could be put under the hull, wouldn't it be possible to tie these around water-filled oil drums, either side, before pumping air into the drums to expel the water? A kind of inexpensive salvage bag, but without the need for the depth bags require...?

 

[maby]

If strops could be put under the hull, wouldn't it be possible to tie these around water-filled oil drums, either side, before pumping air into the drums to expel the water? A kind of inexpensive salvage bag, but without the need for the depth bags require...?

We are talking about a full size trawler here, you realise?